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Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

We'll Pass On Morris Claiborne too, Thanks

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Trent Richardson #3 of the Alabama Crimson Tide beats Morris Claiborne #17 of the LSU Tigers on 34 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter of the 2012 Allstate BCS National Championship Game. (Photo by Ronald Martinez/Getty Images)

In a play that essentially sealed the victory for the Tide, a future first round draft pick runs right past another future first round draft pick. The Cleveland Browns should absolutely pass on both of them.

B19K spelled out why not to draft Trent Richardson in a previous article. Continuing with that theme, here's why not to draft the other guy, Morris Claiborne.

Star-divide

Reason One: The top CB cores in the league are on struggling teams.

Stop for a moment and ask yourself, who are the top cornerbacks in this league? Two names come to mind: Darrelle Revis of the New York Jets and Nnamdi Asomugha of the Philadelphia Eagles. Those two guys are simply the best of the best at their position. Both of their respective teams are also significantly invested in other good corners as well.

Jets: Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Kyle Wilson
Pass Yds Allowed /g: 201.0 (4th) - INT: 19 (10th)
Eagles: Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Pass Yds Allowed /g: 212.3 (10th) - INT: 15 (17th)

While those CB cores are fantastic on paper, the reality of the situation is that the cornerback position is not going to generate the plays that will win you games on a consistent basis. Don't get me wrong, great corners are good to have, and are on some of the best teams in the league, including but not limited to Carlos Rogers, Ike Taylor, Johnathan Joseph, and Charles Woodson. But none of those teams are over invested in that one position. I understand that the cornerbacks are not at all the reason for the Jets' and Eagles' disappointing seasons. My point is this: having 1 elite CB, 1 great CB, and 1 good CB is not a key to success. In the potential case for the Browns, having two recent top 10 draft picks invested in CB is too much, most especially when we have so many gaping holes elsewhere on this team. Even if Mo Claiborne turned out to be just as great as Joe Haden, he is not going to win us any more games on a consistent basis in the years to come.

Reason Two: Our pass defense is already good, if not great.

Pessimists might argue, our pass defense appears to be better than it is because our rush defense is so bad that none of our opponents are choosing to pass the ball against us because their is no need to. There is some truth to that.

Comp - Att - Pct - Att/G - Yds - Avg - Yds/G (rank)
PASS D: 265 (2) - 469 (2) - 56.5 (6) - 29.3 (2) - 2959 (2) - 6.7 (5) - 184.9 (2)
Att - Att/G - Yds - Avg - Yds/G (rank)
RUSH D: 534 (31) - 33.4 (31) - 2359 (30) - 4.4 (19) - 147.4 (30)

While we were ranked second to last in attempts against, we were significantly better in yards averaged on those attempts, ranking 5th in the league (Hat tip to Bernie, who pointed that out in another thread). We also performed well in the percentage of completions against us, even compared to most of the teams with a similar lower number of attempts. We were also 9th in passes over 40 yards against and 2nd in passes over 20. The biggest letdown here is interceptions, where we were ranked 28th.

Obviously, our rush defense is bad. But much to my surprise, perhaps not as bad as some might think. We were actually only 19th in average yards per rush against. Some of the teams we were ranked higher than in that category: Giants, Patriots, Packers, Lions, and Saints. The primary difference between us and them is the inability of our offense to keep our defense off the field. Teams were simply able to keep pounding and pounding and pounding it away against us. Which leads me to...

Reason Three: Our O is atrocious, we need offensive playmakers!

I could go into detail here about how the NFL has become an offensive league, or even more specifically, a passing league, but B19K has already done an excellent job of that, so I'll cite his Reason Three: "The passing game in the NFL is getting too easy."

I could also bore you with the Cleveland Browns offensive statistics from 2011, but that would be far too tiresome and depressing. Needless to say, we're among the bottom of the barrel in the league in terms of offense.

Conclusion: All paths lead toward QB/WR.

Now, I understand the BPA argument and I do think Mo Claiborne is going to be a good player, but the Browns have much, much greater needs elsewhere. We need to address those issues before we ever start thinking about another CB with our top 5 draft pick, especially when Joe Haden and the rest of our pass D are already playing so well.

Mike Holmgren ended the presser strangely. He claimed it was off the record and said to the media, “If we take a defensive player with the 4th pick in the draft, would that upset you?” - WFNY

I'll admit, when I read something like that, I get a tad bit irked. It's not that entirely opposed to the idea, especially with a need at linebacker, and if we address QB/WR with the free agency. It's just the way it comes across that has me really paranoid they might be thinking Claiborne. Smokescreen?!

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Agreed.

I hope Joe Thomas smiles upon us and Blackmon falls into our lap at #4. Unfortunately, for the best chance of that happening is for our front office to sell the rest of the league that we are gung-ho on RG3 because the most likely road to Blackmon probably involves another team trading up to #2 or #3 because they think the Browns will grab him.

I think RG3 will be good eventually and fun to watch, but I’m too uncomfortable taking that big of a gamble at 4th over all.

by ouched on Jan 10, 2012 2:19 PM EST reply actions  

I think RG3 will be good eventually and fun to watch, but I’m too uncomfortable taking that big of a gamble at 4th over all.

I know where you’re coming from, and hearing names like Akili Smith scares me a bit. Still, I’ll be ok with RG3, I want a glimmer of hope.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

To be clear, I won’t burn the stadium down if we go with RG3. I think he has the arm and the requisite intelligence to get the job done, his foot speed and athleticism would be gravy. I just worry about his size, considering our division’s hallmark is physical defense.

by ouched on Jan 10, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think you can say size makes a difference in a QB’s durability. For example Rothlisberger is big as hell yet, he is always nicked up.

by Brocolis154033 on Jan 10, 2012 5:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

His O-line is also of dubious quality, in all fairness.

by ouched on Jan 10, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

He also holds onto the ball for hours back there, then plays up every bruise he gets.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know. There would have to be some lingering brain trauma to think that stupid hat was a good idea in his post game interview. Probably hasn’t gotten over that motorcycle crash yet..

by ouched on Jan 10, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

So tired of hearing that.

When do you think we should take the chance on a QB?
In the 3rd round again?

Sorry this is a QB/WR NFL now if we don’t take the plunge now we will always be bitching about the QB play. Look over the games we lost and how many of them was because the other teams QB out played the Browns QB? Both Pit games could have been won with a better QB. The second Ravens game better QB play and we would have won that. Rams game better QB play and we win. We need a QB Colt is not the answer he will not be much better next year. Unless you hope we get the #1 over all next year and get Brakley. This is the time to take a QB and grab a WR with the 2nd first round pick.

by Brownsfan4ever on Jan 10, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually largely agree with you. Hence: “Still, I’ll be ok with RG3, I want a glimmer of hope.” I like your use of the phrase “take the plunge.” I hope we do take a plunge on a QB, and I hope even more so that it turns out to be worth it.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I just think we might be a QB/WR tandom away from .500. That alone would be awsome because that means we are moving int he right direction. The D will be awsome if they do not spend 60% of the game on the field and that will make a big dfference in games. Tired D is a bad D and we seen that a lot this year. QB/WR tandom can change all that and that can happen now. Even if we have to trade up we do it now is the time to get that QB we have needed for so many years

by Brownsfan4ever on Jan 10, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

.500!? We are a QB away from being 12-4. The problem is that there are three-four of that caliber QB are alive and in playing shape.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I say maybe a WR and maybe a LB, but Maiava and Gocong are looking better and better.

by macdowellm03 on Jan 11, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I never understood browns fans tendency to disregard a season of suckitude after a few good plays

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 11, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

If we had a healthy Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers on this team, we could go 12-4.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 12, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree. The defense has shown it can play.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Jan 12, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

But the WRs have shown that they can’t catch.

by 3PON Nemo on Jan 19, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

And I don’t think Gocong or Maiava are all that great as every down players.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 12, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree here too.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Jan 12, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they can be elevated to an extent if they were next to an elite LB, a legit anchor for this defense.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 12, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

i would still rather have Gocong playing on the goal line and Maiava playing in passing situations.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 12, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Who do we replace them with?

"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."

by Simmsinns on Jan 12, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

LBs we’ve drafted. Gotta take it one pick at a time, obviously, and I would love to spend picks on QB and WR. If we get someone we like at #4 without having to trade up, I would love to see who falls to us at #22. I would pull the trigger on a LB there though I know many would not. I would definitely draft a guy in the 2nd to play LB.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 13, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s fair, but a potentially long process.

"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."

by Simmsinns on Jan 13, 2012 7:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t be terribly upset if we went into next year with what we have at LB. I just don’t think we should look at that situation as set for the long term.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 13, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."

by Simmsinns on Jan 14, 2012 7:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I keep talking about a WR and QB with our top two picks, but I wouldn’t mind a LB with our later 1st round pick. Or in the 2nd round. We could use a young playmaker at that spot.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Jan 13, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

In the 4-3 it seems like you’re asking your LBs to cover a lot of ground – it would seem like it would require 3 really high quality and fast LBs, am I off base in thinking that?

by HenryDawg on Jan 13, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d actually say they need to be more talented in the 3-4, or at least more multi-talented.

LBs in the 4-3 are generally protected from free-releasing OL by the nature of the formations. In many 3-4s, guards can leak up to the ILBs untouched if they really want to and/or if your NT isn’t good. 4-3 backers don’t have to rush the passer as much typically, and only need to run and tackle and cover.

I’d say you are more willing to trade a little less size and physicality for a little more speed in the 4-3.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 13, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree, that is ideal. I am fine with Gocong most of the time at sam. The problem was this year he played a lot at Will too. We need at least 1 more quick LB

I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s a gleam, men. Lets get the gleam.

I don’t agree with you about Griffin. i just wanted to reference Marty.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 10, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Then what lesser gamble do you think would net us a better QB?

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Jan 10, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

the only way I would like a defensive player first is if we trade down with the dolphins or a similar team, get a shitload of picks, and draft courtney upshaw with our new, lower first pick

Your born in Cleveland, Your raised in Cleveland, You root for Cleveland.

by brandeezy09 on Jan 10, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

Claiborne is good, but for many of the reasons you cite he would not add that much value to our team. The opportunity cost to draft him will also be high. I would be ok going defense, but much happier if Kalil were taken ahead of us to give us a guaranteed look at Blackmon or RG3.

Lastly, LSU’s offense is horrible and Bama’s defense is flush with NFL talent.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

Agree, Saban seemed to be looking at Les’s playbook last night. I still don’t understand why LSU didn’t put in Lee for a few to see if he could ignite the offense a little. That other guy was playing terrible.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Jan 10, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The option wasn’t working and Bama’s corners jumped everything underneath from their MoFC defense. This shouldn’t be a huge surprise to anyone, as Saban’s defense is widely written about and understood.

LSU should have set the formation or used motion to get a good matchup vs. Bama’s corner opposite Kirkpatrick, while ensuring a C1 look. If you gave me 5 hours tops, I could do this. Then its just a matter of protecting well enough to exploit that matchup and coverage that you know is coming. Easier said than done, but you can at least put your team in position to get it done because you know its going to be that same damn pattern-match C3 on first and second down 85%+ of the time. Then, Saban is coming after you on 3rd down.

Trying to make Jefferson a ball-controlled passer, trying to run the ball from the I against Alabama, and running the speed option against that defense…I just don’t know why they thought it was going to work. Exploiting that matchup/coverage I cited above and mixing it with some veer/triple option looks to achieve whatever sort of balance you are looking for would have been where I went.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it seems where Kalil goes could be a major determining factor. We also still have to wait on RG3 to declare, at least as my typing this, it’s not certain yet. If Washington lives up to the hype and ends up trading up, I could actually picture us as the team taking their deal. A move that I’ll be pretty disappointed with unless RG3 swiftly busts the following season or if we actually address both QB and WR in FA.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I could live with Colt for another year if we had a really good WR and two healthy backs that aren’t on anyone’s practice squad to begin the season. And another 2 first rounders next year.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

When you put it like that, it doesn’t sound too bad at all. Can’t forget about Matt Barkley on the board this time next year.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not all that high on Barkley right now. Obviously a lot of time for me to be swayed.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. Doubt we’ll have 2 firsts next year though.

Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions

by emily522 on Jan 10, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

If we trade down to let someone else draft RG3, we’d better.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually thought LSU would win. (By the way, that game was so boring. Didn’t watch most of the second half.) I thought they were the better team going into the game, but their offense got exposed last night. Guess they couldn’t handle that SEC speed on defense!

Clemson Tigers 2011 ACC Champions

by emily522 on Jan 10, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The game literally put me to sleep… and it was only 930pm.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I am normally ok with a good defensive battle but once LSU went down 2 scores it was nap time.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t think he played that great of game in probably his biggest show to future employers either. I was somewhat ok with the pick of him previously, not comfortable, but ok. I think my opinion on that has changed slightly. I’m not sold on Quinton Coples or really any of the other defensive players at pick #4 either. I say offense or trade out of the pick if possible.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Jan 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST reply actions  

Awesome stuff, couldn’t agree more.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Jan 10, 2012 3:07 PM EST reply actions  

This. I thought this was front page type work.

We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.

by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 10, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

The only way I’d take him is if the worst case scenario happened and Luck, Blackmon, and RGII are all off the board and no one wants to trade up with us to take Kalil. Would rather take him over Kalil or Richardson.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by North Coast Flea on Jan 10, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

Yes. I don’t “want” Claiborne but if we’re in this position, he’s the best value

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I still think a DE will emerge as a better value. I don’t know enough about Coples right now.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather have Kalil over Claiborne.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Although I love the idea of having Thomas and Kalil as bookends, I can’t see it happening. Ultimately, right tackle isn’t such an important position that you’d want to spend a top five pick on. I could see H&H using the 22nd pick on a tackle, but I don’t think we’re going to see them spend the 4th on it.

In the above scenario, I can’t imagine the Browns’ phone isn’t ringing off the hook with teams looking for a franchise tackle. However, assuming arguendo that no one wants Kalil badly enough, and the Browns don’t think Richardson warrants a top five pick, I’d imagine we’d grab the best DE in the draft, yeah? Sheard plays LE anyhow, so I’d imagine we’d grab Couples (or whomever else, I haven’t looked at DEs at all) and have our front four set for the next 7 years.

by M.J.D. on Jan 10, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t imagine the Browns’ phone isn’t ringing off the hook with teams looking for a franchise tackle.

I think you’re right.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The logic for Kalil would be 1) you could have an all-pro RT for years to come and 2) a backup for LT if Thomas gets hurt
if you get Kalil, then you can manuever to pick up Decastro with the other # 1 pick and we’d be a solid Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Decastro, Kalil with Pinkston and Lauvao as backups

by spacer on Jan 13, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Toooo much used on the oline

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 13, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Way too much.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be awesome. Colt McCoy could stand back there all day and not throw a pass on time to a receiver that won’t be open.

by HenryDawg on Jan 13, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If McCoy is standing back there all day, that means the other teams offense doesn’t get the Ball! 0 wins-0 loses-16 ties!!!

Yes im a troll. Yes I hate everyone. Yes I like Colt McCoy. Yes Im 4 years old. Yes I get butt hurt. Deal with it.

by dirtyjoe on Jan 15, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This. I would rather have the best O line in football than the best CBs for all the reasons you’ve already stated.

by HenryDawg on Jan 10, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Blackmon wouldnt help if we dont have a QB to throw him the ball. Have to get RG3 or QB in FA to even think about him if he somehow falls. We will trade the pick in my mind.

Mitch $ingham

by mitch.frazier325 on Jan 10, 2012 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

You can’t trade it if no one wants it and Heckert has seemed very apathetic to do so this year.

XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 10, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Luck, Kalil, RG3 and Blackmon as the top 4 prospects, I can’t picture anyone of those guys not getting plenty of trade offers.

I see worst case scenario as: 1. Luck, 2. Blackmon, 3. Washington moves for RG3, 4. We take Claiborne over the king’s ransom for Kalil.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

When it comes down to it, Claiborne and Richardson are the only picks that’d leave me really disappointed in this years draft. Even then, if left with either of those two, not a terribly bad consolation prize, but I really like the top 4 this year.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

We wouldn’t get worse with Richardson or Claiborne. My concern with Claiborne comes down the road when we’re paying 2 CBs major loot.

by HenryDawg on Jan 10, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Claiborne could move to safety, also. I would have liked to have seen him play some at LSU.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t understand how a consensus #1 WR would not help. blackmon can get open and actually catch the ball. I would like a QB upgrade as well, but would be happy with Blackmon as our 1st pick if RG3 isn’t there. or nobody wants to trade.

Dawgs By Nature - The REAL International House of Pancakes

by Gabe Durrant on Jan 10, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Blackmon would be a good pick if we don’t think RG3 is the guy or if he is not available.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 10, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

if we don’t think RG3 is the guy

Great point. In the highly unlikely scenario that BOTH Blackmon and RG3 are there and we’re forced to chose one or the other, and H&H pick Blackmon, I’ll be ok with it. I’m forced to trust Heckert’s judgement that RG3 is not the guy that can run our offense. Heckert’s draft prospect evaluation is the bright spot in this front office.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I am with you, if they pass they will have done it because they don’t believe in RG3 and I trust their evaluation.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Mo Claiborne is certainly worth a top 5 pick and if he had the return ability of his predecessor(Patrick Peterson) then I’d be all for it. Unfortunately, I don’t see Claiborne having the same impact as Peterson. I think we will add a CB one way or another but with the 4th pick overall we need the BOPA.

by Brocolis154033 on Jan 10, 2012 5:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

With you 100%. No RB or CB at 4. I’ll scream if it happens.

by johnf34 on Jan 10, 2012 6:55 PM EST reply actions  

C’mon now.

I’m not going to say that I am all for Claiborne at 4, and I understand your point about NYJ and PHI. But how much are they paying for their 3 legit corners? I’m guessing it is far and above what we would pay for a Haden/ Claiborne combo. Two lock-down corners would be AMAZING, in my opinion. I don’t think 4 is the place to get one, but I would be very happy to invest a high pick in a legit CB.

This conversation will be moot in a few months anyway, though, when we see either RGIII or Blackmon holding up a Browns jersey after being selected 4th overall.

by shep615 on Jan 10, 2012 7:16 PM EST reply actions  

Personally, I think you’re overstating the potential Haden/ Claiborne combo. I do think that the combo would be good, but given the current state of our team, it’s hardly an ideal pick, especially with who could be on the board.

Dawgs By Nature - Where winning, apparently, did some bad things.

by Simmsinns on Jan 10, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d wait till later in the first round or early in the second to take Minnifield if they really think CB is that big of a need.

by RyanBr on Jan 10, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Frank’s a bit old now, but I wouldn’t mind seeing an original Dawg back in our D!

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I’m trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Ricky Henderson

by dawgtribe on Jan 11, 2012 3:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha. Talking about Chase!! I mean, if we’re talking Frank we’re drafting him #1 overall.

by RyanBr on Jan 12, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

There have been teams with two great CB’s and there is a diminishing return to their effectiveness. There is a ceiling to CB play

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 10, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

It was fine in the pre-salary cap days. Once Claiborne comes off that rookie salary we’re either spending a fortune on CBs or we just trained him for someone elses’ benefit.

by HenryDawg on Jan 10, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that a potential Haden/Claiborne combo would be a shut down secondary. Remember how everyone, myself included, wanted Patrick Peterson? He was far from shutdown, but his value in special teams is ridiculous.

by macdowellm03 on Jan 11, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t trust SEC DB’s but Saban CBs are the worst so I’d rather have him than Kirkpatrick.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 10, 2012 7:27 PM EST reply actions  

Saban DBs are great, they’ve just already hit their ceiling. And they are never tested because its the SEC and no one knows how to play offense.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 10, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

This is my belief. I wouldn’t touch Kirkpatrick. Saban gets the most out of his guys.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to see what he runs, but the dude is a very good player already. Probably not worth what it would take to get him though.

And, I did like Kareem Jackson.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Jan 13, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Ummm, not sure what you’re going by here. I just counted 31 former SEC DBs currently starting in the NFL, including Champ Bailey, Jonathan Joseph, and Carlos Rogers, all who made the probowl this year.

by bbstirrd on Jan 11, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Talking about recent high draft picks from the SEC

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

And just because they’re starting doesn’t mean they’re good. Peterson and Jackson started, and they were complete crap

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 11, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Your pessimism knows no bounds

by bbstirrd on Jan 11, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve actually been enjoying his posts as of late. I haven’t found myself cursing or shaking my head while reading them. LOL. Seems he has toned down his pessimism, or maybe I just haven’t been back on here long enough to notice.

"They kept throwing it at me. I don’t know why. They just kept trying, and I just kept knocking it down." -- Joe Haden

by Kimble_79 on Jan 11, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta say my favorite TLP posts are when he’s “conversing” with Steelers fans. He deserves an award for his efforts! (and I’m not trying to be sarcastic, either)

by bbstirrd on Jan 11, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Florida DB historically aren’t that bad

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 11, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Lmao, your hypocrisy know no bounds!!!

by OldTimeDawg on Jan 11, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

There are exceptions to the rule.

by Brownie's Year on Jan 11, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The two scenarios that would make me happiest:

1. We trade out of our spot at 4 with either Dan Snyder’s Redskins (#6) or Miami (#8) who picks RGIII. Ideally, the ransom would be either a. their first this year and next plus their second this year and next or b. this year’s first, second, third, and fourth plus next year’s second and third. (I didn’t calculate values using the point system or anything, so excuse me if the numbers don’t quite work.) If we have two firsts again next year and Colt hasn’t improved sufficiently with a full offseason, we have the leverage to get the guy. If we have two firsts, two seconds, two thirds, and three fourths this year, we could definitely patch up some holes and provide depth. If we pick at #6 or #8 this year, I think there’s a good chance we’d again trade down or pull the trigger on DE Quinton Coples or DE/OLB Courtney Upshaw and then get a WR (Wright, Alshon, Floyd) with #22.

2. As nice as the above sounds in terms of the sheer number of picks gained, I don’t think the Browns will be the most likely trade candidate that the Redskins or Dolphins engage; I think those teams will try to do something similar to the above with the Rams at #2 to ensure getting RGIII ahead of each other and us. In that likely scenario, Luck goes #1 to Indy, RGIII goes #2 to Skins/Fins, Kalil goes #3 to Minnesota, and we get Blackmon at #4 and a DE/OLB (Zach Brown?) at #22.

Putting all that aside, if Heckert and Holmgren think RGIII is the real deal, I’d be fine picking him at #4 if he’s there, but I’m generally opposed to strategies that mortgage a lot of future picks.

by chitown browns fan on Jan 11, 2012 10:06 AM EST reply actions  

I have no problem with either of these scenarios….i hope H&H to stay put and do not trade up. But if Luck, Blackmon, or RG3 are still available at #4, this city would go apeshit if they didnt pull the trigger on that offensive upgrade. If they are all gone, ransom away and reload for next years farm selling on QBOF.

November 6, 1995 is unforgiveable.

by WYBHaden? on Jan 11, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Somebody had said that they won’t trade.

by macdowellm03 on Jan 11, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Any team will trade if the price is right, and I tend not to take posturing by any front office heading into a draft as gospel. Having said that, they may not trade. We’ll see.

by chitown browns fan on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

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