PFF: Low Completion Percentages When Targeting Sheldon Brown and Joe Haden
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 13, 2012 12:06 PM EST
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Pro Football Focus is doing their season review, and yesterday they touched on the NFL's cornerbacks. As always, the statistics they look at are subjective. Browns cornerbacks Sheldon Brown and Joe Haden were ranked in the top ten when it came to opposing quarterbacks having low completion percentages when throwing at a particular cornerback.
5th Best: Sheldon Brown - targeted 76 times, 35 passes completed (46.1%)
9th Best: Joe Haden - targeted 85 times, 42 passes completed (49.4%)
Many people have argued that the reason the Browns' pass defense was "ranked" so high was because team's chose to run the ball at them so much. That is true to an extent, but I think you also need to look at things like this and realize that it's not like quarterbacks were torching these guys when they did throw. The top two players on the list were Darrelle Revis and the recently-toasted Ike Taylor.
PFF also listed a bunch of negative categories for cornerbacks. Funny enough, former Brown Eric Wright was near the top of those lists. Wright was thrown at 120 times this season, 2nd most in the NFL (with a 62.5% completion rate against him). Wright also ranked 6th in the league in most yardage given up by a cornerback.
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I think the point of the draft is trying to pencil in starters. Can you pencil in Claiborne as a Starter at CB for the next 5 years? I would say yes. Griffin III at QB? No idea. But not the same kind of lock at #4! How about Richardson? Probably. He’s a beast. Blackmon? Probably. Browns fans have wanted immediate results for 15 years now. I believe in Heckert’s philosophy of BPA.
That’s why it’s easier to draft defense than offense too. But what do we need in the AFC North? A badass defense FIRST! We’re top 10 right now, what is wrong with making us shutdown and going offense with our other 2nd round pick. Then our 3rd. McCoy might work? He had nothing to work with this year.
by gentryholdem on Jan 14, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Ike Taylor did have a pretty good season, he just happened to have a horrible game against the Broncos in the playoffs.
Yes. Many here don’t seem to get that even the best CBs sometimes have bad games or, even crazier, sometimes get outplayed by the offense.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Many here don’t seem to get that even the best CBs sometimes have bad games
That’s a bold statement.
by Brownie's Year on Jan 13, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
On a side note that matters not at all. In my Madden 12 franchise (Over 3 seasons) Brown had about the same stats boost yearly compared to Haden/Ward as you just illustrated in real life, I only user control MLB on D & let the CPU control the rest. Brown had more picks & more passes defended than either Haden/Ward all three seasons & yes our Browns were the champs all three seasons!!!
Madden 12 does not have bugs, it has dyslexia & tourettes.
I would never control MLB unless he was in direct vicinity of the ball carrier. Always use a DE pre snp.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 13, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
FS, I let the computer do the dirty work up front and ball hawk for INTs.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
FS is fun and so is DE.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Well I average about 18 sacks a season with DQ & have not kept the roster completely same as our real roster, I upgraded the team by getting a 92 RT, two 89 OLB’s & signed a few big name FA’s to trade for draft picks which gave me two 90+ DB’s & an 91 RG. The CPU dose a pretty good job with the rest of my D since I don’t play online, I just focus on getting DQ the D MVP & having Hillis/Hardesty pull off a Foster/Tate type season while Little gets the O ROY.
Madden 12 does not have bugs, it has dyslexia & tourettes.
Ditto. It was fun having a NT lead the NFL in sacks.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 14, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
Oh but didn’t they know Haden sucks?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2012 1:25 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Actually I am impressed with Sheldon Brown’s numbers. I was wrong about him. Maybe Claiborne wont be a consideration.
Brown wasn’t bad, it just seemed like he got picked on more than Haden.
Yes im a troll. Yes I hate everyone. Yes I like Colt McCoy. Yes Im 4 years old. Yes I get butt hurt. Deal with it.
I would throw at Brown over Haden.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don’t think he’s bad, he’s just on the wrong side of 30.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 13, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
That’s why I like taking some fliers on guys like Skrine and Patterson. Eventual replacement when Brown is too old.
I’d like Skrine to get more playing time on defense and as the full time punt returner this upcoming year. I’m pleasantly surprised by Sheldon’s numbers, as I was one who thought he was pretty much done as far as coverage was concerned – always liked his tackling ability.
by chitown browns fan on Jan 13, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Bingo. I’d like if if we used free agents this way. Don’t make a big splash in signing them, have them fill in as decent starters, draft talented but raw guys behind them who can take some time to develop and add immediate value on ST.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Patterson was fantastic this season. Great on ST and was a really good tackler as well, IIRC.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 14, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yup. And a good improvement over Eric Wright. The FO seemed to know what they were doing there.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 14, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I seem to remembera while back, Brown was saying that he’s passing on (teaching) knowledge to haden & other DB’s. We picked him up for his veteran skills and leadership. He’s done all of that and can still play, just not as fast as Joe can, he’s got about 2 years tops left in him.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Brown is quietly good. He also looks worse because when he isn’t good, he gets burned and often is burned badly.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I would like to say the same, but how much longer will Brown stick around? We might need to find a younger guy to replace him. Maybe if Skrine continues to improve we’ll go with him, but could he become a legitimate #2 CB?
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 14, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
didn’t suck as bad as the QB’s we faced
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 13, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah like Ben Roethlisberger twice, Andy Dalton twice, Matt Schaub, Matt Hasselbeck, and Alex Smith. They all sucked this year.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He’s having a very good season. Of course he isn’t negatively impacted by the diminishing returns that Brady or Brees or Rodgers have been, but he’s doing a great job of what they ask him to do.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’d kill for a “middle of the road at best” QB on the Browns.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
I mean, it would be an improvement for sure, but that doesn’t reflect on our defense as positively as it may seem.
Bad QBs faced: Gradkowski (1st Bengals game), Kerry Collins, Chad Henne, Jason Campbell/Kyle Boller, Charlie Whitehurst, Blaine Gabbert, John Skelton,
Average QBs faced: Hasselbeck, Alex Smith (generous), Flacco twice, an injured Sam Bradford, Andy Dalton in 2nd Bengals game
Good QBs faced: Schaub and an injured Roethlisberger twice
I just don’t think that’s any worse than most other teams.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
How many “top” QBs are there though? Maybe 5? Plenty of teams don’t face those guys.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are the only truly elite QBs I can think of in the league right now. And Manning was out all year so that leaves 3.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 14, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I don’t think he deserves a lot of the flack he receives. The team screws him over a lot.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 15, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Romo seems too inconsistent to be elite, in my opinion. I don’t watch the Cowboys much but it seems like when I see him play he’ll make some really great throws and some awful throws.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 15, 2012 12:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think he’s a really good QB, but I don’t think he’s on the Brees, Brady, Rodgers level.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
I can agree with that. But if you asked me who would be #4 on my list, I could make an argument for Romo.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 15, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
The other half of the analysis would include some of the receivers he’s faced. Then again, I doubt that would make Haden look good.
Brandon Marhsall, A.J. Green, Mike Wallace, Larry Fitzgerald…. I think that’s it. Help?
by BuenosAires_Dawg on Jan 14, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a bit tougher because Haden wasn’t always primarily assigned to the number 1. He only played half the time on Fitz and Wallace.
And they never had him match the #1 WR of the opposing team 100% of the time. I want to get a closer look at how Jauron did it, but even in games where he would follow people around he would just align on the left a couple of times per game IIRC.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Well you also have to count that two of those guys played us twice. Anquon Boldin is no slouch. Many people on this board think Reggie Wayne is really good.
I’m not trying to say our competition was top notch, or that it didn’t affect the numbers at all. I’m just saying I don’t think it was bad enough to make bad corners look this good. Ok, maybe our pass defense wasn’t actually the second best in the league, but I think it was still probably top ten.
You can’t fault guys for doing their job. Shutting out weak opponents isn’t an indication that they wouldn’t have done the same to good players. In fact, they did a pretty good job on the chances they got against good players.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Basically, you can’t take these rankings as a negative indicator, which is what TLP is trying to do.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Reggie Wayne is good, but may just not be elite without a great QB.
But on the whole point, I do agree with what you are saying.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I was really surprised how Brown performed through the second half of the season. I was all over him last year when he looked slow, old and lost sometimes…
That said, I think he’s seen the crest of his career. I wouldn’t mind seeing another experienced CB brought in through free agency. Too lazy to look up which CBs are up for FA next year, but I have faith in Heckert.
I really like the idea of focusing on offense in the draft and using FA to supplement the D.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
I like Patterson and Skrine a lot. If the FO wants to supplement the D with FAs, I would hope we’d end up getting an OLB, a RDE, and a FS.
by chitown browns fan on Jan 13, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
avril would be nice..
Excited for August...depressed by October
by 'thedrive'ruinedmy9thbirthday on Jan 13, 2012 10:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
So does everyone except JT.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
And if this is the worst we will see him play, then I’ll take him on my team any day.
by OldTimeDawg on Jan 14, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
He had some health issues this year and only missed one game that I know of. Played on a bum knee all year and still excelled. Plus he’s just a good freakin guy to have in Cleveland. I love guys who embrace the city and the Browns culture. That’s worth a lot in the intangible department.
I love guys who embrace the city and the Browns culture. That’s worth a lot in the intangible department.
cough cough MCCOY cough cough
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 14, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t find a CB in the league who doesn’t occasionaly get burned. Haden looked fantastic as a 2nd year corner. Only complaint I have on Haden is he needs to work BOTH the WR & the ball. A lot of plays he just turns and gets the INT. Part of the problem is our poor run defense this year. That’s why I want a stud DE to play the right side.
by gentryholdem on Jan 14, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
This is not directed at you specifically, but I wonder if anyone has stats on which side of our defensive line gave up most of the rushing yards.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 15, 2012 12:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
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