Around the AFC North (1/16): Ravens' Nagging Issues, Zimmer Still the Favorite
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 16, 2012 10:39 AM EST
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PrintIn today's edition of Around the AFC North, we take a look at Baltimore's issues against the Texans, who the favorite for the Miami Dolphins head coaching job is, and how Steelers fans reacted to seeing the Patriots decimate the Broncos.
Baltimore Ravens: Issues Against the Texans
Despite winning over the Texans, Baltimore Ravens fans know they had some big issues on Sunday. Those issues included the lack of a pass rush, the lack of a strong running game, Baltimore's pass protection, and the lack of a spark in the return game. With all those things considered, it's not every day you still come away with a playoff victory.
Cincinnati Bengals: Zimmer the Favorite for Dolphins Job
Although Packers offensive coordinator Joe Philbin could be available to be hired by the Dolphins fairly soon, there’s increasing chatter in league circles that the Dolphins are presently leaning toward Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer.
I wonder how much of a dropoff the Bengals' defense would take if they lost Zimmer.
Pittsburgh Steelers: Broncos Lose Big Time to Patriots
From Behind the Steel Curtain:
Regarding Tom Brady, other than the interception, he was a surgeon. This may have been aided by the fact that the Broncos played a zone defense against New England, which is like trying to put a fire out with gasoline. Didn't get that strategy at all. But maybe that's because the Broncos were one of the worst teams to ever find their way into the postseason. At any rate, this sure makes the Steelers loss last week even harder to take.
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At least the writer of the BTSC article can admit it was a bad, bad loss for that team… props for that. But that doesn’t change the fact that it was totally satisfying to watch them get royally Tebowed all the way back to Pittsburgh.
I think this is a major sign that the structure of their team is denigrating at a faster rate than they thought they could sustain. Too many older/frequently injured players at skill positions and the lines.
As for the bandwagoners and general Steeler scum bags that come over here and proclaim that we’re jealous, lowly know-nothings… Get your Giants gear while it’s cheap!
Steeler days are finished. The Browns are rising.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
by LocalMan on Jan 16, 2012 12:23 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Those jerks better not become Browns fans when we become an AFC powerhouse.
by Brownie's Year on Jan 16, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Even if they try, they’re still not really Browns fans
by macdowellm03 on Jan 16, 2012 2:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree with all of this. Squeelers are falling apart. I can’t wait till it goes back to how it was when we always kicked their ass.
by macdowellm03 on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Steeler days are finished. The Browns are rising.
Don’t know about that. They still have some of the best pieces in the NFL at key areas. Kiesel is still the best 3-4 DE in the league and Hampton is a top 5 NT, Ike Taylor is one of the best CBs, and of course all of their LBs are solid. Ryan Clark and Polumalu are the best S combination in the league
All of their WR’s are young and amazing. And of course the rapist is still a SB QB.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 16, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Clark and Polumalu are the best S combination in the league
I’m not so sure this is as self-evident anymore. It’s been a given for years, I think that’s changed though. Polomalu didn’t impress me this year. He’s not making those amazing plays and ‘doing it all’ like we’re used to seeing. I think several guys at that position had much better years than Polamalu (Harper NO, Burnett GB, Rolle NY, Goldson SF) He’s trending downward. Clark was solid but his condition kept him from the playoffs.
I think we’ve become conditioned to give these guys a little too much respect. Except for Denver! They deserved it in the past, but not the most recent seasons.
At the rate which Heckert is putting together solid drafts, coaching staff and younger players getting a chance to learn from their mistakes and gel… getting on the same page together, learning each others tendencies and personalities. I think these are the qualities needed to form dominate O lines, D lines, secondaries ect…..
The current structure of the Steelers was exposed towards the end of this season… I can actually see them trying to move up in this draft and get crafty to try and get more quality youth on their team. And they still have salary issues to deal with.
This, combined with the noticeable downswing in performance by their steadfast players like Polamalu, Ward, James Harrison… And guys like Max Starks, Hampton, Keisel, Farrior, Foote, Clark, Miller… All these guys are approaching, if not in the later part of their careers…
This is why I feel the Steeler days are numbered and the Browns are gaining ground on the talent gap with them.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
The current structure of the Steelers was exposed towards the end of this season
The steelers weren’t exposed, they were ravaged by injuries the last 3 games and they would have beaten Denver if Ben wasn’t hobbling half of their defensive players weren’t out.
This, combined with the noticeable downswing in performance by their steadfast players like Polamalu, Ward, James Harrison
Ward is getting old admittedly, but that means absolutely nothing when he was replaced by low round players who are better than him. I don’t know what you’re talking about with Troy, as he was still the most dominant S in the league. And Harrison only had 9 sacks, but he played in only 10 games.
This is why I feel the Steeler days are numbered and the Browns are gaining ground on the talent gap with them.
The only positions the browns have on the Steelers right now is the O-line. Their DL, QB, WRs and LB core as a whole is on such another level than ours right now, its astronomical. Or to put it simple; no matter how much we may want to deny it, the Steeler are still a SB level team and could have possibly been on their way if not for their injury report. We on the other hand are not even close to being a playoff team.
Shittsburgh has been a good team for almost a decade because of their drafting and coaching, and their picks as of late wouldn’t indicate that it’s going to change anytime soon. All the while everyone admits that our coaching is questionable, and our drafting hasn’t given us players many would expect to be as dominant any time soon.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 16, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
The steelers weren’t exposed, they were ravaged by injuries the last 3 games and they would have beaten Denver if Ben wasn’t hobbling half of their defensive players weren’t out.
I don’t know enough to, with out a doubt, say any team “would have” or should have won any game. I can’t claim such an absolute afterthought.
The reason Ben was hobbled is because his O line (one of the major weaknesses on the Steelers) broke down, combined with good coverage by the Browns, letting our D line get to him. This tells me that the under performance of their O line is what caused their QB to get injured, which in turn tells me they are many steps behind if they expect their rather immobile QB to perform at the level he has the in the past. But I agree he is a top tier QB in the NFL.
So saying that the Steelers would have won this game if someone wasn’t hurt is doesn’t hold for me… If the all the Browns’ injuries wouldn’t have happen, perhaps we go farther… or any team for that matter.
I know it’s been said before, but look at the string of injuries the Packers had to deal with on their way to the Super Bowl. They had like 20 guys on IR by the SB. Can’t use injuries as an excuse.
Harrison was frequently injured and not as effective as years past. He is trending downward.
My main point is that the Steelers arrow is pointing down while ours is pointing up. I understand that is the antithesis of your mode of thinking (assuming your user name) so I’ll stop here.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
Harrison was frequently injured and not as effective as years past. He is trending downward.
Frequently injured? He was out for 5 games in the middle of the season and didn’t miss any other time other than the one game suspension. He played all of his games the two years prior. So out of the last 3 years he got injured once. You call that frequently injured and I call that pulling crap out of nowhere.
Also, he only had 11 sacks last year and he played in 6 more games. So that means he was actually BETTER this year than last.
but look at the string of injuries the Packers had to deal with on their way to the Super Bowl.
I definitely agree. The difference being that Big Ben got injured, while Aaron Rodgers was perfectly fine. If Rodgers would have hurt his ankle behind that line last year, there is no way in hell they would have won the SB.
My main point is that the Steelers arrow is pointing down while ours is pointing up.
The question is why do you think their arrow is pointing down? There is nothing that indicates this at all. As a matter of fact, why is our arrow pointing up? The Steelers were 12-4 last year, and were 12-4 this year. The browns were 4-12 last year, and were 4-12 this year, and we lost our last 6 games. Do you think they haven’t drafted any players the last 5 year or so?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 16, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
You’re ignoring the fact that Ben is perpetually banged up because he has awful blocking and he still tries to hang onto the ball all day. That’s been the case for the last several seasons, its not a fluke injury that ruined their season.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 17, 2012 1:18 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think Ben has been pretty healthy throughout his career.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
He sure as hell doesn’t act like it, but that doesn’t mean you’re wrong.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 7:24 AM EST up reply actions
It’s hard to know with him, that’s true. Some guys are listed on the injury report for weeks and you’d never know it by watching them, others get a hangnail and it gets the talking heads blowing hot air for 10 minutes in every game about it.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 17, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Whether you think he is faking it or not this isn’t true. He’s injured a lot.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
So now its okay to use another team’s injuries as an excuse to justify that they are astronomically better than us? That’s crap. Everybody in the NFL has injuries. Ben is injury prone at this point, as is a lot of their defense. They are the team that got beat by Denver, and squeaked by us twice. They’re not worlds better than anybody. I know you like to take any opportunity to talk up everyone else and trash the Browns, but there is not an astronomical talent gap there.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 16, 2012 7:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
So it’s just a coincidence they won 8 more games than the browns. That’s not a talent issue right?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 16, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a talent gap, no doubt. Also a coaching gap, and the advantage of continuity. However, if you had watched either of our games against the Squealers you would’ve seen that both were close, which suggests that the talent gap isn’t as “astronomical” as your shtick leads you to believe.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 17, 2012 1:15 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Either that, or the fact that Rothlesburger was playing on literally one leg affected the game tremendously. But I see you’re trying your best to refer to my “shtick” rather being sharp enough to realize that.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
His “limp” disappeared from time to time. This is the biggest question with that fat drama queen. You can never get a good gauge on whether or not he is truly hurt, or pulling something out of his rear end.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
or pulling something out of his rear end.
Like you’re doing with all this?
There is no reason to believe Ben chose to become a statue in the pocket and completely screw up his offense in order to be dramatic. That, to but it frankly, is pretty damn stupid.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
You’re right, he has never completely made up injuries before.
Right? Or I could use the 103 temperature. Or his broken ribs “that didn’t show up on X-Rays”.
The guy makes up injuries more than the rest of the NFL combined.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Normally I’d agree with you, but it seems there are reasons to believe that.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
What are those reasons? I’m honestly curious.
The most important fact in all of this is that Ben was clearly playing a lot differently after his injury. There were times where he could have scrambled for a first down easily but he didn’t, and he didn’t move around in the pocket at all.
It just doesn’t make sense he would jepardize a SB in order to be dramatic. I think it’s asinine.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
It just doesn’t make sense he would jepardize a SB in order to be dramatic. I think it’s asinine.
He does it all the time.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Asinine like…risking your multi-million dollar body by riding dangerously and crashing your motorcycle? maybe potentially sexually assaulting underage and/or of-age girls multiple times?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jan 18, 2012 3:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What are those reasons? I’m honestly curious.
Did you click the link bernie provided? My guess is no. His own coach said he lied about an injury.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not necessarily saying he was faking it. I’m just saying I think it hurt a lot less than he let on.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t recall Ben mentioning anything about how much his ankle hurt, but everyone watching the game noticed how much it effected him
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 18, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I noticed that at some points he walked fine and at other random points he limped like a one legged douche.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Which seems about normal for a sprained ankle
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 18, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
No, it’s not. Not randomly. If it acts up, it’ll probably pain throughout the rest of the game. Being able to run perfectly fine after limping like a sick cow 10 minutes ago makes no sense.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Now you’re exaggerating like Ben
I’m dealing with a messed up ankle right now. Most likely the pain is at its worst when he plants or tries to run, which explains his sudden inability to move in the pocket, and the sudden change to his deep ball and accuracy
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 18, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Awe, you poor baby.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Now you’re exaggerating like Ben
So, if you think he exaggerates, what are you even arguing?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Or the time where his GM said that he was lying about a rib injury.
Or the time he told reporters that he played with a 106 temperature, even though a fever of 105 can cause brain damage and possibly death. But yeah, I’m sure he played football.
For anyone to say that Ben Roethlisberger is beyond reproach on faking injuries is either a Steeler fan or just arguing for the sake of arguing. Oh…nevermind.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This is an entirely different situation than those. In the articles you linked, it’s been after-the-fact exaggerating his injuries, when they didn’t show up on the field.
This situation his injury clearly showed up in game, as expressed by analyst and anyone with half a brain.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 18, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you. I think he was hurt. I don’t think it was nearly as bad as everyone said though.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know about the faking or not, but yeah, he was definitely injured. When I saw the slow-mo replay of his foot tucking up where no foot belongs I kinda cringed – then remembered who it was and kinda smiled.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Like NTN said, I’m not doubting he had a sprained ankle, I just don’t think it was the “most painful injury” he ever had. We are talking about a dude who went through a windshield.
But that is BB’s game. Every nick and cut is the worst thing to ever happen.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I never said it didn’t affect the game, I said that injuries aren’t an excuse. For anybody. They’re not an excuse for us, they’re not as excuse for the Steelers, they’re not an excuse for anybody. The Steelers beat us 14-3 and 13-9. They’re a better team, obviously, but there’s no such thing as an astronomical talent gap in the NFL.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 17, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
the Steeler are still a SB level team and could have possibly been on their way if not for their injury report.
I don’t buy this excuse. That speaks to a lack of depth. Every team has injuries, but the deep teams can overcome it. Like the Packers last season. The Texans this season.
I would consider the Steelers lack of depth an issue.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 7:23 AM EST up reply actions
Right. Everyone gets injured. The Packers had a ton of injuries last year and they all have rings now.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
There is a certain point at which depth cannot even make up for your injuries. After all, you replacing a number of starters with back up players. How can you bring up the Texans when they got bounced from a playoff game they would have won with Schaub?
But most importantly the biggest injury I speak of is with Ben
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Texans could still win a playoff game though against an opponent that was probably better than the Broncos, proving they have some depth at QB.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Everyone gets injured. The Packers had a ton of injuries last year and they all have rings now.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Stop pulling things out of your rear end.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jan 17, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Rodgers would have hurt his ankle behind that line last year, there is no way in hell they would have won the SB.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a hypothetical, it’s worthless to this discussion. It’s also, ironically, something you just pulled out of your ass. I think they most definitely could have won that super bowl still.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Here’s the highlight video of that super bowl. Tell me how many of these plays Rodgers made with his feet. He had two rushes for -2 yards.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Also, very SSS, but Flynn has looked great in limited action for them. Not the ideal situation by any means, but from what we’ve seen they would have had a chance to win even without Rodgers.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
They still have some of the best pieces in the NFL at key areas. Kiesel is still the best 3-4 DE in the league and Hampton is a top 5 NT, Ike Taylor is one of the best CBs, and of course all of their LBs are solid. Ryan Clark and Polumalu are the best S combination in the league
All of their WR’s are young and amazing. And of course the rapist is still a SB QB.
Well, yeah, but other than that, they suck.
[Damn, we really suck — just goes to show what consistently good drafts do for a team — the Steelers have needs right now, but it’s nothing that a draft can’t fix. We on the other hand, need two very, very good drafts at least to get good.]
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 16, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
2009 the year we essentially drafted a center with the #5 overall pick and then followed that up by drafting MoMass and Robo in the 2nd. Meanwhile, they’re getting Wallace in the 3rd and just got Brown in the sixth or seventh.
That was a discouraging draft. Heckert is doing better. While he is drafting better – he did not improve the team. Prolly Holmgren let us down by possibly hiring a poor coach and definitely when he let the rookie fly solo without an OC. That was stupid.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
by realmccoy on Jan 16, 2012 11:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He has significantly improved the team in just 2 years. Draft a real QB (RG3) and get a fast receiver and we’re not worrying about it anymore.
Do we pass on Blackmon in the unlikely event he and RGIII are both there?
I live for Christ the KING.
I can respect that you would want this. But I just dont see this happening.
I live for Christ the KING.
Unless you know Colt is the guy, and our FO doesn’t seem to think he is, QB is way more important than WR and this is also a pretty deep draft/FA class for WR, not so for QB.
if Tom Heckert had shown any willingness to sign quality free agents the last 2 off seasons I would be excited about the deep WR class in free agency this year but he hasn’t so I am not excited.
He signed quality FA’s in the past.
He just hasn’t overpaid. Big difference.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 8:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The key word is “overpay”. He’ll bring in depth but doesn’t want to throw cash around to older players. That’s my understanding.
by Brownie's Year on Jan 17, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Young, Patterson, Brandon Jackson, Bunkley (fail) were all FA they tried to sign. He’s not going overpay a single player who may or may not perform. You have to look at how they’re trying to build this team.
but Young and Patterson were only slightly better than awful most of the season. I know they are trying to build this team solely through the draft but I don’t think that is going to particularly successful, you have to supplement your draft choices with quality free agents when you are first rebuilding and Tom Heckert has not done that yet. To me there are simply too many holes to fill them all through the draft before guys start becoming eligible for free agency and leaving for greener pastures.
Patterson was a pretty good nickle this year. He also signed Ben Watson.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I had nearly forgotten about Ben Watson b/c he was so underutilized this season and we will just have to agree to disagree on Patterson.
well, you’re the only one who seems to be convinced that Patterson sucks, so you can keep on believing it.
Watson was banged up a lot and I think he had 2 concussions this year. Let’s not try to blame this on Shurmur, Watson had injury problems.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I thought he was a damned good nickel. I can’t see any point in reading any more of this thread if it’s just going to consist of wild statements like “slightly better than awful” to describe a DB who played pretty damned well.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
do you even use your eyes in the games? Patterson was much better than awful.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
And you were there when he was sitting back in his office and specifically not contacting people during the free agency period, right?
He could have put feelers out there and people could have been asking for way more than he wanted to pay and none of us would have known.
We’re trying to build the team through the draft and sign solid but unspectacular(ly expensive) free agents. That’s the plan.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
All indications were that the Browns were in on Eric Weddle.
Then the price went through the roof. So the Browns decided to save their money, roll the dice with Usama Young, and save their assets for another day.
It’s been proven time and time again to be the smartest way to build football teams, but everyone wants to win the off-season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I heard those rumors too and Weddle would not have been worth it, even though he is quite good.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
He’s good, he’s not best-safety-of-all-time good. And that’s how he’s being paid.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I guess I just feel like there had to be someone between Weddle, the best safety available and Young, one of the worst safeties available, that we could have targeted.
Safety market was pretty thin last season.
Plus, if Young stunk, his signing wouldn’t kill us financially. H&H have done really well at keeping our costs low while we build the bottom of the roster.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
By most accounts, Young’s play steadily improved through the season. His tackle totals were pretty good. A lot of people judge him on the one play against Tenn. where he took a bad angle and that sticks in their head but he really wasn’t too bad given his inexperience and cost.
I had actually forgotten about the Tennessee play, the play that sticks out in my mind is the complete whiff on a tackle against Foster or Tate in the open field at Houston.
Young was much better in Ward’s role than the the Mike Adams role.
Like to keep Young around for depth.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
well, if you are just looking at guys who can play FS and not the pure SS/Run support guys, the options are quite limited.
The only players that were way better than Young were mkell and Atogwe. Both got quite large contracts (6-7 million/year) and both were 30. Safeties break down in their early 30s, especially ones who have started most of their career.
The only other real obtion was Zbitkowski
To put it this way, Pool was maybe the 4th best guy in FA who could play FS…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
If we had a concussed Poole and a concussed Massaquoi on the same sideline, would it create some kind of vortex that sucked in all of the remaining healthy players?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Who?
When free agency comes around this season, you can name names and then be able to have that on record so you can point back and say “I thought we should have gotten X.”
But unless the “type” of guy you want actually exists, saying you want XYZ type of player in free agency doesn’t really provide a legitimate counterpoint to the plan that H&H have put into action.
I would love to get an elite QB in free agency, for example, but that guy doesn’t exist.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Drew Brees is a free agent this year, Peyton Manning might be as well.
I would be perfectly happy to discuss the FAs I would have targeted last year but that usually just devolves into everyone poo-pooing all the suggestions nit picking every suggestion to death and saying why each one was completely impossible.
Neither one of those QB’s will reach the market.
The Saints will give Brees the exclusive tag, and the Colts won’t let Peyton walk away for nothing, they will trade him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 19, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
exactly. He got a contract probably bigger than Polamalu or Reed ever got and he is nowhere on their level.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
You are what your record is and we have not improved. Maybe next season he can back up your statement. Now Harbaugh improved the 49ers.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Not likely and where does the blame fall on this? Here is what Heckert and Holmgren have done over 2 years on the position -
1. Bring in a washed up retread of a QB and pay him $7 million dollars for just pathetic performance. Brilliant.
2. Bring in an experienced backup who throws 50-50 balls, has no chance to be a decent starter, and doesnt fancy himself as a backup.
3. Commit all of a late 3rd round draft pick who the majority of the folks feel does not have the tools to be an NFL QB and annoint him the starter without competition.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Well who do you think they would start? Should they have reached on Gabbert, Locker or Ponder? Colt was a good fill in with some potential but he doesn’t look like he can make all throws, especially on the move. Wallace is a solid backup, he’s better than anything KC or Chicago had at the time. I don’t like him now for not helping Colt but that’s another story. I agree on Delhomme, never liked that, but would you rather him keep Quinn? It’s not like there are a ton of options like you just snap your fingers and boom, franchise QB. It’s one of the reasons I’m so adamant that we should do whatever it takes to secure RG3, you just aren’t going to have a better shot at a better prospect, or at least you can’t count on it.
Good points and questions HD. Not sure I have a good answer. For sure there was no good answer in the draft in 2010 – we made a pitch for Bradford and failed. The QBs picked ahead of Colt and after Bradford present more issues than Colt. In 2011 draft Colt had exhibited enough under Mangini to shy away from reaching for Gabbert, Locker, Ponder etc. I probably do prefer BQ to JD – but the trade for BQ was very promising until recently.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
and how many of those guys are on medicare?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The only problem with your player analysis, is that Hampton may be cut to cover the huge 20-25 million over salary cap budget along with other big names. Polamalu (concussion boy), Taylor and clark are now getting old and running slower times as well as being out of position on many plays. Smith may be let go along with Farrior and replced by hayward an worilds. Their O line is junk and soon their Defense will be young and human like everyone else. You can’t describe the Steelers like it’s 5 years ago, they have major problems to fix and an aging defense.
" I thought the Rocky Mountains would be rockier than this." Ya, that John Denver is full of #$%! man. Besides, we just got Tebowed!!!
by StadiumMustard on Jan 17, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just responding to add a point in moderate support of TLP – while I agree with many who say the Steelers will be worse next season, due to the fact that key pieces are further past their primes or becoming costlier, history shows the Steelers have an uncanny ability to fill the gaps.
Everytime we think there are cracks in the foundation, the Steelers find the right players to avoid collapse – and to remain elite.
We can hope for missteps by the Steelers in order to hasten the decline, but I would never count on it happening.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Jan 17, 2012 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was wondering too. What happened? Just more people regurgitating the same “Colt needs weapons/we need a better line/Colt can improve” vs. “other people do it without weapons, Colt didn’t look very good/Colt can’t improve” stuff?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yes. Apparently Colt McCoy has now become officially irrelevant on DBN.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 17, 2012 5:56 AM EST up reply actions
I believe the author deleted his post. It wasn’t taken down by a Mod.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
That’s what I thought. He was proly tired of people mocking the thread.
by Brownie's Year on Jan 17, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Probably right. The post was pretty lame, even though I didn’t think the topic was necessarily irrelevant. The guy put the damn thing in all caps and didn’t present much of a case except to regurgitate the same old generic arguments (re – rufio’s comment above).
I still do think there’s a very solid case to be made that McCoy has played his first 1.5 seasons under extremely adverse circumstances (no continuity, no offseasons, very weak supporting cast, etc., etc.) yet still shown great potential. That said, if a fanpost is going to be published, I’d like to see the case be made with much more detailed evidence, statistics and perhaps even game film breakdown, etc. rather than a rambling, shrill one like the one that guy posted. I’ve been tempted – as a devils advocate position to the growing mob like mentality that has largely taken over the board. But I’m not the right person to do it because I’ve already been labeled along with several others here as “Colt apologists” (as well as my Texas biases, which I’ve already admitted to many times). Rather not dig my hole any deeper (than I’m already doing with this comment :-/…).
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 17, 2012 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
McCoy has played his first 1.5 seasons under extremely adverse circumstances (no continuity, no offseasons, very weak supporting cast, etc., etc.) yet still shown great potential.
I agree with the first part, but not the second.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
That’s fine. I respect your opinion. We can agree to disagree.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 17, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I honestly just want to know what you consider the examples of great potential.
Are you a UT fan?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I had assumed it was taken down by you guys since NTN had made a comment in the thread about the fanpost being inappropriate.
That was my understanding.
by burntorangeandbrown on Jan 17, 2012 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
Sidenote: The Texans look like they have some nice pieces at OLB and DE on that defense.
Still would be intrigued to see if Houston would trade Mario for Atlanta’s first rounder.
I know a lot of people would like this to happen. But, why would they even consider trading Mario for anything? I think there is no reason they would even think about trading him.
Well they already have younger and cheaper replacements on the roster. Plus, Mario is a FA and will want DE money, not OLB money, which could be a dispute between him and his team.
So, as the Texans, would you pay Williams 90 million, with capable replacements already on the roster? Matt Schaub and Arian Foster on the horizon of a monster deals. Those deals could easily cost in the neighborhood of 125 million combined. Remember, Andre Johnson got paid, Jonathon Joesph got paid, DeMeco Ryans got paid, etc.
All the sudden the Texans are getting pretty expensive.
So, if you are the Texans, do you send Mario, a guy you did just fine without, out for a first rounder or spend a crap load of money on him?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
great points. I would thank him for his service, & shop him around.
I think he’d appreciate it too, as he is probably aware he has better chances for $$$ elsewhere.
by mr.saturday.night on Jan 17, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
The money part is key.
As a player, DE’s make more money than OLB’s. Terrell Suggs (6 years 63 million) James Harrison (6 years 51 million) are on the high end of OLB contracts.
Dwight Freeney (6 years 72 million) Julius Peppers (6 years 91 million) are the big money DE contracts. He may not have been saying it yet, but I can guarantee you Mario Williams will want to be paid as a DE, not an OLB.
I wonder if the Texans will agree (I bet they won’t).
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Joseph signing was not the smartest idea.
I also think they will let Foster walk. That’s what their system is designed to do: turn low picks or UDFAs into 1000 yard rushers and let them walk or trade them. It’s exactly the same as Denver circa Jake Plummer/Early Cutler.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Ben Tate has looked quite good in that offense and he is under contract for longer.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
They can find someone else too if they need. All they need is a guy who is willing to be disciplined as a runner and can make a person miss now and then and who has a little straight line burst. There are a lot of those guys out there.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yep. Part of it definitely is the system, though both Tate and Foster have talent (but you obviously need some of that)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I would let Foster bounce, but the Texans better be sure Tate is ready. Heads will roll if he goes elsewhere and the Texans struggle.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
They will tag him. He is a FA, but we would need to trade for him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 8:13 AM EST up reply actions
I would make that deal in a heartbeat. Would love to see us take a risk to add a blue chip playmaker rather than trade downs and not using FA to even offset your own FA losses. If being a 2nd DE makes Sheard a real monster – that has the potential to be a dominant – top 3 DL.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Honestly that deal is really tempting. How old is he again? And what was this year’s injury about?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Torn Pectoral.
He turns 27 in a few days.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I want that trade done yesterday.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 17, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
So basically he’s DQ.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I’d give up a third for him. His age and recent injury make me very hesitant to give up a first rounder.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
Recent injury should not be worried over. Seriously, it’s a torn pec. He’s only 27.
Texans would laugh at a third rounder. He’s the best 4-3 DE in the game dude. Did you seriously just try to say that Mario Williams is only worth a third and write it as if you thought the Texans would consider that?
Face palming so hard right meow.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s too early to say the Squeelers are on the decline.
Even when the Brownies used to whoop on them, they were a decent team hovering around 8-8 most years.
There FO is as solid as any in the NFL. The wild card in the situation is Mike Tomlin.
Love or hate Cowher, ya can’t deny he was all kinds of successful…. (tho I am one who says he probably wasted as much talent as he succeeded with)
In any case. I believe we can count on Pitt, Balt, & every few years Cin to field good teams. Yes, H&H need to get it right,,, but do as they have, through the draft.
Personally, I’d go as far as saying, wait another year before making waves in FA at all.
Let the future OC come in & make a mark first.
by mr.saturday.night on Jan 17, 2012 2:34 PM EST reply actions
OT: heard on the radio on 93.3 in Greenville SC this morning – " haters are going to hate and steelers fans are going to be steelers fans." it really summed up a lot for me to hear a random comment about steeler fans like that. Good to see the rest of the world getting on board.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Jan 18, 2012 3:24 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
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