Wyche: Browns Want and Need Robert Griffin III
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 17, 2012 2:54 PM EST
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PrintGet ready for a wild offseason, folks. Steve Wyche of NFL.com released a mock draft today, and he has the Cleveland Browns trading up with the St. Louis Rams to acquire the second overall pick in the draft.
Several teams are going to try and move up to get Griffin but the Browns have the most ammo -- the fourth overall pick and a late first-rounder or high picks in later rounds. Cleveland needs Griffin -- and wants him, according to league sources -- and the Rams will still get their man.
Wyche cites the infamous "according to league sources" phrase as the reasoning behind the pick. In his scenario, Wyche doesn't explain exactly what the Browns would give up in a trade with the Rams, but he still has Cleveland keeping their second first-round pick (used to select DE Whitney Mercilus).
I feel like I could write a thesis on the reasons as to why the Browns should or should not take RGIII, but then I look at the calendar and see that we're only at the mid-way point of January. How many more RGIII-to-Cleveland reports are we going to see over the next few months? Enough to make you dizzy, especially when we have no idea if he is the type of player Mike Holmgren would want to run Pat Shurmur's West Coast Offense. Looking at Wyche's draft, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was kind of envious with who the Rams -- now coached by Jeff Fisher -- would end up with at No. 4.
Hat tip to HenryDawg for posting about this as a FanShot.
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RGIII anywhere in the first 3 picks for the Browns would be a wasted pick. The Browns have too many holes to fill prior to the QB position, besides RGIII is not, in my opinion, the best player out there, even at #4
Down the wormhole we go.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 17, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
if you’re taking a qb in the top 5 you are clearly taking a qb that you believe can be the answer. how could it possibly be a wasted pick to take a qb who you believe the be the answer?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 17, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
because we do not need a quarterback, therefore the pick would be a waste. colt mccoy is an excellent quarterback. heres what our first round draft should look like:
- overall: Justin Blackmon
- overall: Right tackle or Right guard
these 2 picks alone would enhance the entire offense IMMENSELY and leave the browns the rest of the draft to do with what they wish. heres why,
Our receivers are pretty bad. its true, and we all know it. we lead the league in dropped passes and we have nobody that can run deep and stretch the field. Solution: Justin Blackmon. adding him will give us the deep threat as well as another target for defenses to cover. Instantly insert blackmon into 1st string, move Greg Little to Second String and massaquoi to third string. now you have a receiving corps. just by that 1 draft pick.
The left side of our offensive line: Joe Thomas, Jason Pinkston, Alex Mack only allowed less than 10 sacks total this year. the right side however, yielded upwards of 20 in addition to most false starts than any other browns player. our RT and RG are giving up pressure almost immediately and losing us yards in penalties. drafting that RT or RG, will give us the upgrade that will give mccoy the time he needs in the pocket.
by Jonngotti on Jan 17, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
colt mccoy is an excellent quarterback
You lost me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Quit reading there. Whether or not you believe Colt McCoy could one day develop into an excellent quarterback, or even a decent one, you can not argue that he is right now.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
I want Colt to succeed as much as just about anyone who isn’t a UT fan and I am generally optimistic…but I can’t convince myself he is even a decent QB right now.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
This. I wont try to speculate what the answer is right now at QB, but I think a 2nd player at least needs to come in to push McCoy to do better (Wallace doesnt count and probably is gone).
That’s if you want to go with the crowd and believe that McCoy totally blows and doesn’t deserve a chance to be a starter anymore, and our O line is some great unitbesides two players, and our WR are bomb diggitity. I am going against the crownd, want to trade out of #4 especially if it is RGIII there, get my extra pick(s) and add more talent to both sides of the ball – and add some quality with time left through FA – No more one or two years left players.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Just because we’ve seen piss poor QBs here in the past doesnt mean every QB competition is a “crowd.” RGIII should- if hes coming as many people advertise, claim the starting role almost instantly. Matt Flynn would probably claim the starting role instantly. But theres a difference from putting them #1 and them earning #1. BQ, DA, even Colt were all just given the reigns, and we’ve all seen how awful they have been.
BTW- the WRs are “bomb diggitty?” We need to upgrade there, but a QB is more important to find if you have question marks about the one you have.
Well, Matt Flynn can claim to be a quality starter (like Wallace) but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is (also like Wallace). I’m still just not convinced by anything that I’ve read about Flynn.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
I got what you were saying. I was just being a bit tongue in cheeky while saying that I haven’t been impressed enough by anything that I’ve read about Flynn to think he would be a better choice than RG3.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
You have to drop this “me against the world” mentality. Most people here don’t think McCoy totally blows, just that his ceiling is low and he probably won’t get there anyway. All that has been said about our line is that they were pretty average in pass protection. Everyone agrees our receivers are pretty bad. If you want to argue for a different position be my guest, but at least pretend to have read what others are saying.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you don’t have to think our O-Line is some great unit and our WRs are bomb diggity to want another QB.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
i don’t think there are many people saying that mccoy “totally blows”, but this idea that he deserves the starting spot or is owed the reins to the offense is preposterous. he was not a good quarterback in 2011, and he has not shown enough promise as a quarterback to warrant an entire off season spent entrenching him as the starter.
he’s more than welcome to have a chance to compete for the starting job, but the quarterback spot, like virtually every other slot on the team, should be looked at as an opportunity to upgrade.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I can talk myself into Colt being serviceable and that he won’t actively blow games. That’s about it.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 18, 2012 1:00 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Are these actual stats about the offensive line or are these made up? Our line really isn’t that awful. It’s been said a million times around here lately. I wouldn’t complain if our draft turned out this way, but this isn’t the Couch era with a good QB and a historically terrible line.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 18, 2012 1:02 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
He’s just blowing smoke.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
there’s only one QB worth trading up to and that would be at #1. That is worth the shot of trading picks for. Anything else is NOT worth it.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
If Holmgren and Heckert believe RG3 is worth trading up for, I’ll go with their opinion over yours.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Jan 18, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Trading up to #2 seems silly. The Rams and Khalil seem like a natural pairing given how many sacks they gave up this year, so it would surprise me to see any team get them to leave the second slot. Now Minnesota, they worry me a little.
by ouched on Jan 17, 2012 3:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
which if our front office is smart, they would have already called Allen/Shanney, and who the heck is over at miami, and make a deal that is just a little bit less expensive than eith St. Louis or Minny is asking. These other teams would be smart to work it that way.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
i’m banking on flynn going to one of those teams and the other making a legitimate run at peyton manning…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if the Browns would consider trading for Ryan Mallett? Not good mobility, so maybe not a good fit for west coast offense. But he’s got other qualities which could translate well in the division. Drafting Blackmon for a good target would help, too.
The athleticism wouldn’t be that big of an issue as long as he can move well and be quick within the pocket. He ran a lot of concepts we run at Arkansas. I still question his accuracy and intangibles a little.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yes, I wouldn’t want Derek Anderson 2. I’m still holding out hope that Colt will work out, in any event, but am aware that he’s got some size and strength limitations that might prove insurmountable. I think I recall Shurmer commenting on how he wanted Colt to stay in the pocket more, and I think a size guy like Mallett would succeed better in that scenario.
Plus there’s that cocaine addiction that Mallet has to deal with.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
No, LaMicheal James is also a crackhead*
(Note the asterisk. I have no evidence of his abuse of crack, but I believe if I mention it enough, he will fall to the Browns in the 3rd round. Worked for Mallet last season.)
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack. LaMichael James does crack.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
note: I have no evidence.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Did you know there’s actually a phenomenon by which facts are totally made up and legitimized through the internet? Someone makes something up. Someone else, in the course of providing some type of reputable resource, let’s say a book, stumbles across that made up fact. They use that “fact” in their book because they’re too lay to corroborate it with something else. Now, whenever that first person is challenged on this “fact” they can point to this book and claim it as a valid source.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
I heard Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU…
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 17, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome — I was looking for that last night.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
I got tongue-tied reading that and said “Lebron James does crack” a few times in my mind. Hmmm…
by Legoman0721 on Jan 18, 2012 1:05 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
By choking them with dead kittens.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Forget LaMichael James. You guys hear about how much crack RG3 has been doing? And Blackmon’s so dependent on it, teams picking in the top 21 should avoid him altogether.
by C.b.I on Jan 17, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
But they haven’t been disproved either.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
That’s my understanding.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
"Who gives two shits about Matt Roth besides Matt Roth and Matt Roth’s mom?" - LocalMan
by The Licensed Optimist on Jan 17, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
They battled with their dealers, so that’s where they’re at.
by Legoman0721 on Jan 18, 2012 1:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 4 recs
Obviously.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I see no way DeCastro goes in the top 10. He’s good, but Iupati didn’t even go top 10.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Agreed. And then there is that whole never-really-played-against-good-opposing-lineman thing
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I mean neither did Iupati. Idaho isn’t exactly scheduling powerhouses left and right.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
One of Iupati’s draws was his physicality.
Decastro doesn’t have that.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 17, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Peyton Manning situation will have a major effect on the draft. If a QB-needy team manages to land Manning, it would increase the chances of Griffin being there at 4. Of course it would also take away a potential trade partner for us…
by JohnW81 on Jan 17, 2012 4:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Matt Flynn too. I’m hoping the Redskins throw a bank at him, instead of going into the draft needing a QB.
by ouched on Jan 17, 2012 4:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Snyder doesn’t make the decisions there anymore.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
If we think RG3 is a franchise caliber Qb and risk losing him, giving up picks to ensure we get him is a must.
No doubt. The big question there is the “if” — despite what “league sources” say, I would bet quite a bit that Holmgren (and this has to be the Big Show’s ultimate decision) is very, very much undecided on what RG3 is worth. I think he will want to work him out, etc. He didn’t fall in love with Bradford until after Bradford’s pro-day (which was touted to be the best pro day since Troy Aikman’s).
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 17, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
a must.
I completely disagree. I don’t think the “risk” of losing him is all that high, but if he is somehow drafted before us, in the top 3, it means we get Kalil or Blackmon, which I’m perfectly fine with.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
As long as your OK with Colt being the QB for the next X number of years until you’re in a position to draft a franchise QB, if there even is one there that year.
That X variable (being anywhere from 0 to 10) depends on a lot of things, such as free agency or his own play.
But if we don’t have a QB that can beat him out in training camp, and we suck again, we’ll probably end up in the top 5 again, having this same conversation next year. Only it’ll come with Kalil/Blackmon and the stud we drafted at 22.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
Yeah, I mean its totally feasible Colt gets better and you have a team with lots of talent and a game manager QB. There are worse things in life.
Even Alex Smith showed off a pretty lively arm the other day. I haven’t seen Colt make those types of throws (game winner was a prime example) on a rope like he did. Not saying he can’t but I question if he can.
of course you were. they agree this year, but for about 6.5 years they were ready to murder the guy.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 19, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
X being one because without a qb, we’ll have a top 5 pick for sure
by macdowellm03 on Jan 17, 2012 7:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No way, Colt is going to be better, the O Line will be better, the defense will be better, the running game might be better (this is all pending no injuries). We should win more games.
even with colt at qb, this team should be better and win more games next year.
but to the point above, if you think rg3 is the man, then you go get him. period. if you have an opportunity to draft a stud qb, you do it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 17, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yep, we’ll be better and at best, we have a shot at Landry Jones at QB unless he significantly improves…and if he doesn’t improve, I don’t really want him
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
And that easy schedule too? o no, that was this year…
Sorry but you cant just assume things like that. People have a “madden” issue thinking that PT just makes a person immediately better. Of course theres always chance with the players you select or bring in through FA, but to get locked in an attitude that “Colt is going to get better” is wrong.
by -bobby- on Jan 18, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think don’t think you know my thoughts too well. I am on the side of trading picks to get RG3 if needed precisely because I have no idea if we’re in a position to get a franchise QB in 2013 and I don’t know if Colt is the answer, and that’s being polite about it.
If we think RG3 is a franchise caliber Qb
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
quotation
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
If we have to trade up for Griffin, especially with the given top 4 prospects, I’ll be disappointed.
Any one of those four guys are a better option than giving up our other first round pick to trade up.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
I disagree. If the guys upstairs think a guy is a franchise QB, you have to get him.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 17, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
you have to get him
Well that’s good, because we can very likely get him at 4.
Even in Wyche’s mock draft, there’s no reason at all for us to trade up, the Rams and Vikings probably aren’t going to take RG3. And if they trade with some other team, it means we get Kalil or Blackmon and keep our picks, which is great.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
I think it’s likely everyone stays put in the draft this year, but if we think another team is trying to trade ahead of us, that’s trouble.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
that’s trouble.
No, it’s not. It guarantees us a great prospect in Kalil or Blackmon. This is coming from someone who has really wanted a QB since half way through the season. I just think it’s not a good idea to trade away our picks when the other options are better: 1. get him anyway, 2. get someone else who is awesome and also at a position of need.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
If we did nothing to stop the other team from moving, we would’ve failed, hard. If we’re fine to sit back for Kalil or Blackmon, it would make me pretty mad.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
We have no need whatsoever for Kalil (who is a stud) a number 4 overall pick on an LT with the plan to move him to RT makes zero sense. If Kalil is BPA when we are on the board, we better try to trade.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 8:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Preferably, if Kalil is on the board and RG3/Blackmon are not, I would also hope we trade down. If we don’t, I’m fine with taking him and solidifying our tackle position for a long time.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
This is a waste.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Jan 18, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I’d rather take Claiborne over Kalil.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
But I wouldn’t take either at 4th overall. TRADE DOWN at that point.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Well, yeah, of course we would try to trade down. I was speaking to the hypothetical that we couldn’t, or just didn’t get the deal we would want.
a team will trade up for Kalil.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I get all the FA RT jokes, but that didn’t work out all that well last time.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
It’s been one season dude.
“Well, Pashos and Cousins and Hicks didn’t work. Therefore finding a RT in FA doesn’t work. Case closed.”
Uh, no.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Cousins was even a free agent — he was picked up on waivers from Baltimore. And that’s a team that definitely needed help on its o-line.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I wish we would have claimed Gaither when Kansas City cut him loose.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Unless something whacky happens with his medical check-ups, I would be really, really, really surprised to see Kalil on the board, especially with two OLine poor teams ahead of us.
I think odds are good that Blackmon will be up there though. We need someone to test off the charts at the combine.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
I think it would be smart of the FO to make a list of all the teams with a need at LT and start calling around with hypothetical trade deals like we did with Atlanta last year. I don’t think we need Kalil.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Jan 18, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with trying to make a trade, and I think one would get done, but in the hypothetical situation that no team is willing to trade up with us, Kalil is probably the BPA with Luck/RG3/Blackmon all off the board.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
i’m a huge proponent of taking linemen until the sun sets in the draft … but if 1-3 goes luck, griffin, blackmon, then i think we have to move away from kalil, even though he’s BPA at that point. i think you have to go with a BPA + need (pass rusher?) at that stage.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Someone will call us if Kalil is on the board.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i can’t see a situation where we wouldn’t be able to move the 4 pick w/ kalil on the board. my point was based on us not being able to move out of there, which i think is highly unlikely.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Chicago maybe? That’s just my first thought. We will definitely be able to move the pick.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
but if 1-3 goes luck, griffin, blackmon, then i think we have to move away
I agree that we should really take the king’s ransom that’ll be offered up for this stud franchise LT. But the pretend, extremely unlikely hypothetical was that no one is willing to trade with us, (again probably will never happen), but if it did, in bizarro-world, I’m happy with Kalil.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
Nope. If they think he’s the guy (especially if Holmgren does) and they think they’re going to miss out on him at 4, trade up.
You’d seriously be angry because they moved up to grab a player that has twice the talent than Kalil or Blackmon?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 17, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t know about twice the talent, but he’s add more than twice the value to our team.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yup. You can’t really compare the talent of an LT to a QB — very different skillets.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 8:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This. LTs prefer cast iron, where QBs use non-stick teflon.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Jan 18, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
all the better to make some tasty pancakes…
Dawgs By Nature - The REAL International House of Pancakes
by Gabe Durrant on Jan 18, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cast Iron holds heat really well though.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
And the flavors it can absorb.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
You’re assuming he pans out. Personally, I’d guess that of the top 4, RG3 is the least likely to pan out of the group. Now, I don’t let that discourage me from drafting him (at 4th overall), but when speaking about adding value, I don’t think it’s more than twice.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
Kalil adds very little value to our team. Blackmon too, unless Colt develops into a guy who can be efficient enough with the ball for us to beat good teams.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I am thinking some quarterback is coming in here to compete for the starting job at quearterback. Someone unnamed as of yet
Yeah but you would also take JaMarcus. No thanks.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe this is what I meant.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
If anything, Kalil and Blackmon are more likely to be successful at their respective positions than RG3. I don’t buy your “twice the talent” argument for a second. Personally, I like all 4 of the prospects there, which is why I don’t think we should be giving up picks.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
Being successful at WR is world’s lower than being successful at QB.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, not for our other first. I cant see H&H doing this in any scenario.
I live for Christ the KING.
I can, pretty easily actually.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 17, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Care to explain, or is disagreeing with me without an explanation doing enough for you since the Tebow thread?
I live for Christ the KING.
I gave you plenty of explanations then. Don’t get made because your religion was tested on a public forum.
This is a GM of a football organization. Anything goes. Colt sucks; you need a prolific QB to win in this league. RGIII is it if you can’t get Luck. I mean you can’t be 100% but you can’t be 100% on anybody in the draft. It’s impossible. You go with the information you’re given and the situation you’re in and you pick the pieces that will best help your team. Colt isn’t cutting it and probably won’t. RGIII is clearly that piece that could start to push us over the top.
I’d contend to say that their aren’t many senerios of them not picking RGIII.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You will possibly end up being correct. I just read somewhere the odds of first round QB picks and turns out QB’s success rates (don’t remember all the parameters defining ‘success’) were exactly at 40%, the other positions all averaged out to approx, 44 or 45%. If H/H feel RGlll is worth it, then they will do what they need to do. If they don’t think he is THE QB, they could stay put or trade down. It’s all speculation here, but speculation can be fun.
by OldTimeDawg on Jan 18, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Lol you read that here at DBN.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
you know what the rate of finding even an above average QB like a David Garrard (yes, he is the cutoff) outside of the first? less than 5%.
Other positions are littered with late round guys who were really good and pro bowlers
HB: Forte/Rice/mjd
WR: Brandon marshall/welker/colston
TE: pretty much all of them besides Pettigres
OL: Snee, Gross, Nicks, Sitton, Birk, Saturday (2 at each)
DE: Jared Allen/Trent Cole
You get the picture. A lot of the elite guys at other positions aren’t taken in the first. Take those stats with a huge grain of salt because they don’t point out the the success rate of getting another position outside of the first.
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This is hilarious. Since when is the 2nd round a “late round”? Every HB you mentioned was taken in the 2nd round.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
It’s later than the first. The success rate on QBs drops precipitously even in the second round.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, so because the 2nd round is later than the first it is a “late round”?
If not, you fail to address my point. I’m pointing out the HBs bross mentioned as “late round guys”.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
you are harping on a typoe, when I meant later round. If you don’t even want to define 2nd round as later round, I gave you other options.
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Indeeb
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
I forgot *later, not late.
Ok, Lesean mccoy (3rd). Brian Westbrook (3rd/4th, I forget), Turner (5th), Fred Jackson (was he drafted?) Foster (UDFA).
It’s still later than the first anyways…
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I agree with you but before someone else points out, Lesean was a 2nd rounder… between MoMass and Veikune…. ouch…..
I thought he was a 3rd rounder…
oh well. 2nd round may be the best round to draft a RB though and my personal favorite RB from this draft (Chris Polk) is likely going to go in the 2nd and reminds me of another 2nd rounder (Forte)
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As far as second round RBs go, the one’s not names Hardesty are awesome. And I’m actually in favor of avoiding a RB at all costs with our first pick. I just found the “late round” description amusing. With the “later” correction, it seems a lot more accurate.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
yeah, 2nd round is definitely not “late round”.
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and before you try to say that I only included 2 at every position, I could include more. But there are only 2 QBs on the level at their position as the players I mentioned that weren’t taken in the 1st: Brees and Brady.
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yep. I believe one year before the 1st round expanded into 32 also.
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So you figure Couch then Quinn. So, we go RG3 and we’ll hit this time!! Just playing the percentages.
eventually we gotta hit…hopefully. Better chances than if we take a later round QB every year for 10 years.
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I mean Shaq is eventually going to hit a free throw if you keep sending him to the line.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The big difference being that a lot of those missed free throws came after and-1 posterizations.
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
I agree with all this, except for the part about “not many scenarios” These guys are smarter than Mike Ditka. There has to be value in this draft in more than one area. I think 2 first round picks to move up 2 picks is a lot when you look at what type of player we can pick at 22.
I live for Christ the KING.
Everyone is smarter than Mike Ditka. This isn’t a Ditka situation. THIS IS A POSSIBLE FRANCHISE QB. NOT AN AVERAGE RUNNINGBACK.
And really? You think the person we could pick at 22 can be equal to picking RGIII at #2 or #4.
Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. Come on man. That even sounds ludicrous.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Your point is totally right, but I take issue with calling Ricky Williams an “average runningback” — Rickie Williams was really, really good. He still plays and still ain’t half bad.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
If indeed we are picking Griffin, we had better try and keep as many picks in case he doesn’t pan out.
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by Heavysoviet on Jan 17, 2012 6:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
so, we should be planning for our first round pick to bust before we’ve even picked him? i get it…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 17, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Well duh, Tim Couch and Brady Quinn didn’t work out so clearly we should never ever draft a QB high.
Nevermind our line is 10 million times better than Couch’s and Brady Quinn was mishandled and probably never as good as advertised. Also drafting a bust sets you back 5 years so we should just plod along in mediocrity.
I think Couch and Quinn not working out just means we’re due.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think the new QBs coming out have seen enough of the Leafs, Russels, etc. that they know they need to keep their business straight and work hard. RG3 is clearly a hard worker, along with his physical skills. Most of the busts were directly related to either work ethic/character issues or arm strength and accuracy issus. RG3 grades high in all those categories.
That's the beauty of karma.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Its like dropping a coin in the plinko game. Every time it hits a peg, it’s got a 50/50 chance to go left. The odds don’t get better as you move down the game, but the odds that you end up all the way on the right decrease exponentially.
The coin is going to bounce to the left one of these times.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jan 18, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
There are no guarantees in pro sports. RG3 could be the next Tom Brady or Ryan Leaf. We don’t know. I’m saying that we should prepare for the worst in case it happens, cut our losses if in fact we do have a bust on our hands.
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by Heavysoviet on Jan 17, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
You wouldn’t know for years though which makes it pretty silly to start stockpiling picks now for anticipation to be grabbing another QB.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
There has to be some preparation if indeed he doesn’t work out.
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by Heavysoviet on Jan 18, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Uh, yeah. It’s called draft another QB in the first round the next year. Preparation completed.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
As explained in another thread - just look at San Diego after Leaf. They tried and tried again until they hit it. Drafted a QB at 2 (Leaf) and failed. Three years later, drafted a QB at 32 (Brees) and appeared to have failed. Three years later, drafted a QB at 4 (Rivers) and hit. Gravy was that Brees all of a sudden turned into an awesome QB when Rivers held out.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
But then starts the entire building blocks to groom that QB again. Helps to have picks to clean up the mess.
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by Heavysoviet on Jan 18, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
But then starts the entire building blocks to groom that QB again.
And? You aren’t going anywhere unless you have that QB anyways.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
A healthy balance of picks is good, is what I’m trying to pinpoint. I’m not in favor of trading them away so we can get Griffin.
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by Heavysoviet on Jan 18, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I have to disagree. When we start winning our positions in the draft will matter less and less anyways so better start getting used to it.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Granted, if Griffin turns out, then stockpiling picks won’t matter as much.
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by Heavysoviet on Jan 18, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
But then starts the entire building blocks to groom that QB again.
So, we should just pass on trying to get a QB to groom at all?
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
As a I mentioned earlier, it helps to have picks to clean up the mess.
Ohio's premier Russian fan.
by Heavysoviet on Jan 18, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
but there is no mess. not yet. and maybe not ever.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
That’s probably the worst and most inaccurate mock I’ve seen so far…and I’ve seen crap loads.
by redCel on Jan 17, 2012 6:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
In general or just pertaining to the Browns?
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 17, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Id have to say in general. Reading through the comments on bleacher report, it doesn’t sound like anyone from anywhere likes it.
by redCel on Jan 18, 2012 1:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
When April rolls around no mock is entirely accurate. “Crazy” things will happen.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Last year this time everyone was gaga for the pass rusher from Clemson, then a report about his knees came out and boom, second rounder.
by the way, was he any good this year?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
well Jayme mitchell is our best pass rusher and he got 1.5 sacks, so…
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by bross09 on Jan 18, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So we could have had TWO Jayme Mitchells?! That’s not a Super Bowl, that’s a DYNASTY!
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
by Doc's Kid on Jan 18, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
exactly…why did we pass on Bowers?!?!?
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Crazy things will happen, agreed. but when you try to predict craziness and not sensibility, you end up looking and sounding ridiculous.
by redCel on Jan 18, 2012 9:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wyche doesn’t even say what picks we need to give up to move to #2. Not the #22 pick obviously.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Jan 18, 2012 6:57 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah that’s a vote of confidence for sure. One of their less horrible writers thinks RG3’s arm is just a little better than Colts and otherwise they’re the same except we know about Colt’s intangibles but not RG3s.
Most of the commenters want Richardson or Kalil.
i noticed that about Richardson and Kalil too. Thought it was pretty weird that the same fanbase has 2 different prospectives on 2 different sites.
Although they are as divided about RGIII as us.
by redCel on Jan 18, 2012 5:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ha. Wolf is so bad.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
test
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I wonder why people thinking trading our second 1 or 2nd rounder sets up back 4 years. It’s an extra pick and we have nine of them. You can only have so many players on your roster.
Because we may miss out on the next Brian Robiskie or David Veikune.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 8:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is what I’m saying. Isn’t that why we made the deal last year? It was to add another pick this year to improve our team. If we have to use that pick to get the QB we want, then, mission accomplished.
by RyanBr on Jan 18, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I like this rumor because I think it is a smoke screened aimed getting someone else to trade up and get RG3 so that we can get Blackmon.
by BrownsFanRegina on Jan 17, 2012 11:29 PM EST reply actions
Don’t worry. It’s not.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 17, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I see a lot of people advocating taking Kalil if he falls to us. He seems like a franchise Left Tackle but, as everyone is aware, we already have one of those. Are people thinking we should use our #4 pick to draft a backup to the Pancake man? Alternatively are you thinking of turning him into a Right Tackle? I think we can get a specialist RT with a pick in the 3rd round. Using #4 on Kalil might be a waste.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
I think Kalil is “worst case scenario” where someone trades up for RG3 and Minny takes Blackmon and nobody wants to move up. You probably start him at RT until JT decides to have mercy on RDEs around the league and goes fishing, then you move him to LT. It’s not the best case, but its not the worst thing to happen either.
All we hear about with Holmgren and Heckert is how you build from within and draft picks. Why would you trade draft picks to move up two spaces and draft a QB that is still a question mark with this offence. McCoy is not the problem. Bad play calling, dropped passes, running for your life as soon as the ball is hiked, no running game, that’s the problem. McCoy is still the guy who beat the Patriots and Saints last year. If you want to move up to get Blackmon, if you feel he won’t be there when you pick, I can see that. At least your getting a playmaker on offence. Pick #22 sould be used for the best OL in the draft that’s still there. Keep your picks, we need them all with all those holes to fill.
Last night I was warming to the thought of Colt starting with Blackmon and some other weapons. Then I saw some more clips of RG3 and how fast he gets the ball out and how accurate he is (granted college) and forgot about it. That release just looks all-pro.
Colt is irrelevant to the discussion really. It all rests on the evaluation of RGIII. If you believe he is all pro caliber you have to pick him. Then you let them compete and see what happens. However, if he is that good – you will have to trade up to number 2 to get him. The cost will hurt, as I am sure it will include the 2nd number 1 DC – but that is the price of fixing this situation.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I get what you’re trying to say, but not sure I agree. While ideally you have 2 starting caliber QBs on the same team, it never seems to work out well. Colt where he is right now would be an awesome backup.
Would suggest that it would be better for RGIII to have a piece of wood stuck to his behind for the majority of next year. He will undergo a huge transition from a gadget offense to WCO. I have been a fan of his and watched him for years and I am not sure he has ever even taken a 5-7 step drop and looked downfield. Give him a year of development. During that time, if Colt really shows he has something – we have a great problem. If he demonstrates he is a career backup then you have the hard talk and see if he can be a good backup here.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Gah, you had such a good point before now you say this!? That is the mentality that KILLS QBs in Brownstown. Quit with the “give Colt this, give RGIII that.” Let one of them earn it. To say we are going to use the #4, or even as you suggest youd do above, our 4 and 22 to get to 2 only to get a QB that you predetermined would sit a year is ludicrous. If you think he is that good, then let him earn the #1 role without saying he rides the bench.
This is different from when Colt came out. He was a very late 3rd round pick. Holmgren is smart and knew Browns fans would be calling for any drafted QB to start, so he said he will ride the bench his first year (did happen). This was for protection of a young QB that got drafted low because they obviously didnt think he had all-pro potential (but maybe he could develop into a good-great starter). QBs going in round 1 should be expected to come in and compete to start from day 1, and thats what Id expect from RGIII if he comes to cleveland.
by -bobby- on Jan 18, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The original plan with Couch was to let him ride the pine behind a vet for his first year. It just didn’t pan out that way. It’s not necessarily a bad idea.
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by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
And still that is a “special” scenario, because they were an expansion team. Even Peyton Manning could of had his career wrecked playing for the 99 Browns.
It is way worse to force a QB in early before he is ready than it is to let him sit if he needs.
Just the sheer level of memorization of terminology it would take to play QB for us is a lot, then you got defenses you have to read, various “games within the game” you have to keep track of, the bigger concepts—both play by play and in terms of the course of the game—and pro wideouts and TEs who all think they are open.
That’s a lot for a guy to handle in only a few months’ time.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
When has that ever happened? And when has it ever resulted in that team NOT getting great draft picks for one of the QBs?
Schaub/Vick, Cassel/Brady, Orton*/Cutler…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What, is Orton addicted to crack too?! I guess they should just trade him to us for an 7th rounder, top 250 protected.
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
haha its a different asterisk. Orton probably isn’t “good” as agreed upon by everyone.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
A good stopgap.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
If we have a QB controversy and we are winning games and one of those QBs is throwing for 300/game and efficiently then I’ll take that yesterday.
I also forgot Vick/Kolb above. When people think your two QBs are good at least one of them is and you can keep that guy. The other guy either walks and you get a compensatory pick or you can trade him for second rounders at worst.
Are the Eagles, Chargers, Patriots, etc. any worse for having shipped off Schaub, Kolb, or Brees? Arguably the Chargers are but with Brees’ injury that was an entirely different story. If we had RG3 and Colt and Colt started playing like Brees, that would be a great thing for us.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The game plan beat the Saints and the Patriots last year. Wallace could have done the same thing. McCoy has had his year and a half to get it done, you cant think that all of a sudden he is going to be wonderful. Even other defenses said, he stares down the receiver too long we know what he is going to do with the ball. He needs to see the whole field. NOW the question is do Holmgren and Heckert and Shurmur think he can be taught and execute the game plan well enough to win in this league so much that we forego picking a quarterback in this draft? When they could not name Colt McCoy as the starter and the QB to build this team around, gives us insight they dont believe they can, at least not now. HE STILL MAY BE AFTER THE DRAFT AND TRAINING CAMP THEIR BEST OPTION, no one knows
When they could not name Colt McCoy as the starter
Or this may have been because they didn’t want to reveal their draft intentions. If RG3 is still on the board at #4 and everyone knew that we weren’t going to take him anyways, nobody would bother offering us anything to move up to #4, since they could look to get to #5 for less.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Cmon man, you can’t say the gameplan won those games. Colt still made the plays he needed to make. A win is a win is a win.
The real thing to note was that those were two out of 15+ games he’s started and he hasn’t been able to perform like that consistently.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
A win is a win, but you cannot tell me McCoy “won” those games. in NO David Bowens comes up with 2 INTs for TDs and Hodge had a 68 yard run that set up a FG if I remember right. thats 17 of our 30 points. the offense produced 13, while mccoy went 9/17 for 74 yards- Hillis added only 69 on the ground. Really… thats what you point to for a good game??
Now the NE game, McCoy added 100 yards to his total… Hillis completely dominated though. 184 with 2 TDs. McCoy had a nice rushing TD this game (a scramble to the left front corner of the end zone if I remember?) Stuckey also scored on the fumble-rooski. And didnt we have a onside kick or something? But thats all irrelevant. Yes, McCoy played good this game (14 of 19 on passes) but you cannot tell me this wasnt a byproduct of the game plan.
Colt won those games as a starting QB. You can say that a QB’s win-loss record doesn’t mean that much—and I would agree with you—but you can’t take the wins away from him. Colt wasn’t putting the team on his back in those wins but he did what he needed to do to win.
Again, Colt has had good games as a Brown. Just not enough of them.
And every QB performance is the product of the gameplan. Setting up the team (and by extension the QB) to win the game is exactly what gameplans are there for.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
McCoy is not the problem.
McCoy may not be the problem, but he is certainly a problem. And if you have a problem at the QB position, that is your biggest problem. McCoy is also still the quarterback who lost to the Rams this year.
As far as a new QB not being a guarantee, there is no such thing in the NFL. You have to take the chance. If we never take a chance on a good QB we can be the jaguars for the next ten years.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
Prolly I am among the top 5% of the McCoy supporters and I am admitting that he did not demonstrate that he is the QBOTF – period and exclamation point. Colt supporters have to recognize the guy was given a tremendous and golden opportunity by Holmgren, annointing him the starter. This gave him status as the club leader – and increased his chances of success tremendously. Still – to me he has flashed enough that you do not conclude he is worthless and eliminae future opportunities. In addtion, the decision to not hire an OC was stupid and hurt the entire offense. I say if RGIII is the real deal and Heck likes him – lets bring him and compete and see what we got. Lets get chilly and realize Competition is the best coach in the world.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
In addtion, the decision to not hire an OC was stupid and hurt the entire offense.
I agree and disagree with this at the same time. While it did set us back a bit, hiring the wrong OC would have been even worse. See: Daboll.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Which makes me think what the issue was here. I mean, 2010 exhibition season, Delhomme was on fire.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Right. I don’t really think there are many outright bad assistant coaches. They all got there because they’re good at what they do. Some are certainly better than others, but when a team is absolutely terrible on one side of the ball execution has to play a huge role.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
While QB play would have really helped, Daboll’s gameplans were still resistant to change throughout the game and lacked any real depth to lead an offense to points in the 2nd and 4th quarters.
Obviously a great player can make any play work, but Daboll did not set us up optimally for success.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Jan 18, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am just pointing out that Daboll’s offense performed pretty well with a subpar Matt Moore at QB this year.
That is true. Hopefully for whoever he coaches for next, he’ll have learned some things that will help him. He’s always been good at scouting the opposing team and scripting plays to open the game that score.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Eh, you could also say 2011 exhibition season McCoy was on fire. thats the tricky thing about preseason.
I was talking about Daboll in general though.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Colt McCoy was on fire this preseason.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 18, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t need no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight…
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
i never did think, and continue to not think ,that daboll was that bad here, or that he was even a significant problem.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
McCoy is still the guy who beat the Patriots and Saints last year.
He may have had a little help from Peyton Hillis and Reggie Hodges.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Bowens beat the Saints.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 18, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Nope. Watson is cool and I expect Cameron to improve.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I thought I heard grumblings (no proof, just thought I heard) of Watson being a possible player being let go
I think I’ve heard this too. But I don’t know.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think Moore will get better too, he now it was not the year we expected by he more than doubled his catches from the year before, had 4 TDs and combined with Watson, they had 71 catches. That’s not bad production really for team so offensively inept. He seemed really serious about becoming a well rounded player and I also think he lost playing time because we were starting Oneil Cousins at RT and we needed a blocking TE to help more than a receiving one.
i also think he (moore) got noticeably better as the season progressed
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
mccoy isn’t 100% the problem, but he isn’t the solution either…
McCoy is still the guy who beat the Patriots and Saints last year.
And he had less than 250 yards passing in those 2 games with exactly 0 touchdowns. Peyton Hillis and the D won those games more than he did.
Next.
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speaking of that, I found a funny pic related to that and SOPA
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I dunno if this is too political but
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Jan 18, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not too political. At least it shouldn’t be, SOPA would destroy the internet as we know it. I think even blogs like this one could be in trouble if it was passed.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
It’s worth noting, DBN (and most SBnation blogs) have a link aggregate section. With the wide open language used in SOPA, if one of those links posted by a random user might happen to link to an article that was deemed to contain “pirated copyrighted material,” they could shut down the entire SBN domain.
The other issue, with a blog like this one, a lot of the coverage involves discussion other sports journalists comments. Articles here would have to walk on egg shells with quoting large chunks of other “copyrighted” pieces.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
yep. as a joke I pointed out a link saying "this could shut down SBN if SOPA passed and the link was too the pirate bay.
mods: you can delete it if you want, in case SOPA actually does pass.
I figured not too political, but it is a current law on the table so I was trying to tiptoe.
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What’s sad, is that could very well be an entirely real scenario if the bill actually passed. It’s so poorly written, without any understanding of actual internet dynamics, i.e. comment sections, that this nonsense would be occurring all over the web.
"The tragedy of life is not that man loses, but that he almost wins."
I totally agree. The best person to write this bill if they actually wanted it written would be someone who is 25 or under because they are much more likely to frequent a comment section…
or maybe the people writing just don’t care…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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The fact that Tim Berners-Lee and Vint Cerf were against SOPA and PIPA shows how damaging it could be to the Internet simply from a security standpoint. If you don’t know who they are, look them up. Berners-Lee created the World Wide Web and Cerf helped create TCP/IP.
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
McCoy is also still the guy that got beat by the Cardinals and the Rams this past year, so whats your point? And, why is RG3 a question mark, but not Blackmon?
Maybe it’s all too obvious to say so, but while these mocks are interesting, they’re far from predictive. Wyche’s mock draft in March of last year had three first round picks right out of 32. That’s a batting average of about .094, i.e. 9.4% and came closer to draft day. Not exactly impressive. Interestingly (tellingly?) NFL.com has taken since last year’s mock down, and it’s only available on a Rams fan site.
That’s actually a very good mock. He got the top 3 exactly right. He didn’t get the positions right in the top ten, but he nailed most of them. He hit on Phil Taylor at 21. DaQuan Bowers was obviously wrong and Ryan Mallet in the late 20s was way off, but I don’t see a lot of glaringly bad calls there.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 18, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I may well be misconstruing the purpose of mock drafts. It would seem that if the intention were merely to name the top 32 picks in the NFL draft, then it was indeed quite good and accurate. But as a fan, I want to know who my team is most likely to pick, not just who the top prospects are. And that’s where this sort of thing is relatively useless to me despite that he got Phil Taylor correct. I’m probably taking this too seriously, though.
pretty hard to predict trades, and prices of trades, etc.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t wait until we are picking at 32 (without trading down) and have no idea who we will get.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
2013 seems a long way off.
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by Dawg Nuts on Jan 18, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
With the Caldwell firing by the Colts….
what does anyone think about them releasing Manning?
is there a chance he’d like to come here, with our better overall team, & bring a couple of his FA WRs with him?
I know this is purely hypothetical & wishful thinking… but, a fella can dream, right?!?!?
by mr.saturday.night on Jan 18, 2012 12:29 PM EST reply actions
They won’t release him. It’s either trading to the Jets or nothing. They won’t eat that contract just to get rid of him.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
for the record, Manning’s Contract has an out … if the Colts pay him a $20 million bonus due on March 1, they are locked into his Contract…. however, if they refuse to pay, he is release… It’s certainly possible that the Colts (with a newly blown up staff and FO) could release him…
They would not release him. That would get all the new guys fired immediately.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
The only way he gets released is if Irsay signs off on it.
by mr.saturday.night on Jan 18, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
the point is if they don’t release him or trade him prior to the 53 man roster being set they will have the largest QB deal in history with Manning and the Luck’s #1 overall money on the roster.. they won’t have money to build their clearly pathetic rest of the roster…. they would basically be making a $20 million dollar investment just to trade him… depends how confident everyone is in his health i guess… if he is healthy enough for another 3-5 years they will have no problem recouping that money… if they think he’s still a serious health risk… no way they pay him
I think it’s almost a sure thing they release him anyway. You gotta remember if they do go ahead and pay him his roster bonus and keep him to trade him, the team that trades for him is gonna get his contract too. No team wants to pay that kind of money to a guy that could possibly get hit once and never play again.
Not going to happen.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
Not going to happen.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
Not going to happen.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I think you are forgetting how little rookies are making now.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
the rumor was that the polians were pushing to dump peyton and move onto the next chapter. irsay would have none of it, so the polians were out on their asses.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I have to choose between the opinions of B19K and Rob Lowe? I need Moon to weigh in on this.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
He’s switching to fullback
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
by Doc's Kid on Jan 19, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think if he Manning has his choice, he goes to KC, where they have a decent team, in an easy division, with a VERY PLAYER FRIENDLY coach.
by mr.saturday.night on Jan 18, 2012 1:04 PM EST reply actions
If you go somewhere you go anywhere but KC. I suggest you read up on how Pioli runs them.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 18, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
great point. I hadn’t thought of that.
Too bad also, would be a great place to ride into the sunset, a la Montana
by mr.saturday.night on Jan 18, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
I hope either MIA or WASH takes him and the other takes Flynn. We keep our picks and hope Minny doesn’t do something nutty like take RG3.
Washington wanting Flynn
I went over to hogs heaven to see what the Redskin fans are saying about RG3, they have a big artickle on how good Flynn is and how he could be their savior.
There is also a handful of people who want RG3 but are afraid they will have to give up too much to get him, us having that 2nd 1st round pick is scary to them because we hold the bigger gun.
Why must I be like that, Why must I chase the cat?
I am a Redskins fan, Most Redskins fans do not want Matt Flynn
and some fans are afraid to move up, but if Shanny and Allen think RG3 is their guy they will pull the trigger, cause he cant get QB wrong again
Personally I want RG3 real bad, however I dont want to give up both 1st round picks. I would give up our 1st and 2nd to get him.
Why must I be like that, Why must I chase the cat?
No need to trade
Browns have the 4th pick…Colts are taking Luck, Rams a WR they have a qb and the vikings are next and have their man with Ponder..so whats this trade talk?? The Browns are already in position to select RGIII…plus Holmgren never had a style like him run the offense, Farve, Hasselback..Browns will keep that pick and get the best RB or WR available then draft Weeden from OK St. at 24..I actually think he’s better than Luck.
Weeden will be 29 next season. He won’t be drafted before the fifth round, if at all.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Farve played til he was 40..Hassleback is 38 and still had a good season, thats about 10 good seasons left for Weeden, the fact that he’s older supports my statement that Weeden is actually more ready and more mature than Luck. Age 28- 32 is now considered prime, that also means the Browns won’t have to wait around for him to mature. Makes even more sense thanks.
But they will have to wait around for him. It isn’t about pure age, it’s about years playing football at a high level. It’s not like Weeden would come in and play like any other 29 year-old QB. He would take just as much time to develop as any other guy, except he has a 7 year disadvantage.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 18, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
those guys were also not drafted at age 29 and had much more upside than Weeden.
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you forgot when he was the QB Coach/OC for Steve Young…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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the trade talk stems primarily from the fact that there are likely to be other teams calling the rams/vikings looking for an opportunity to go up and get rg3.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
You make a valid point..however, he was still a semi professional player at baseball, so he has footwork and arm strenghth. And in baseball you have to be really accurate throwing a baseball, and he did all that this year leading Ok St from out of no where to number 3, higher ranked then Luck and RGIII. Because of his baseball career he will also have the mental toughness that I think Colt is dealing with now. It would certainly be a risk but Colt going into preseason will still be the man anyways.
As far as playing at a high level, there are several players in the NFL who never even played highschool or college footbal: The soon to be Hall of Famer Antonio Gates played basketball, never played a down of football in H.S. or college. And Young did not arrive in S.F. till he spent a couple years in Canada and in Tamba Bay, so he was already polished. Young learned to be a pocket passer from Joe Montana, thats why I excluded him.
he was still a semi professional player at baseball
this, quite literally, means nothing to weeden’s ability to be a successful nfl quarterback.
and gates played high school football.
other than that, great post.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Weeden has even said it is completely different
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Weeden has actually said that it is a different motion, different set of muscles needed, and nowhere near the same. Weeden blew out his arm and it hurts him to throw a pitch. Because of how different it is, it doesn’t hurt him to throw a FB.
You know, if Jeff Samardija throws out his arm, everyone should be all over him then if this is the case. College WR, 6’5’’, and he can throw a baseball! He is Weeden+Tannehill.
And you shouldn’t disregard Young because he was a QB who had similar skills to RG3, though his running style wasn’t the same. Young should be excluded because he learned to be a pocket passer? Why can’t RG3 be the same? He actually a good pocket passer in college even though he threw from the shotgun.
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Bross, FYI, I found out Tannehill was recruited to A&M as a QB, he just played WR while another guy started. Apparently his whole time there he practiced with the QBs and only played WR on Sat. Not saying I want him, but its something else to consider.
that is interesting. I did not read that.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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What are the chances that the Rams trade Bradford and take RGIII? Browns wanted Bradford badly a few years ago, and now two of his Rams coaches are in Cleveland.
No thanks. He’s Colt McCoy with a more expensive contract.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
The wild card here is Minnesota. Either Miami or Washington is going to move into the rams spot and give up a kings ransom for it. Flynn probably fits better in Washington, so I’ll say Miami moves up for RG3. I do not want to see us take RG3 for the simple fact that a dominant receiver is needed here badly and they rarely come along. The past 5 years there have been 15 WR’s drafted in 1st rd. only 5 have been busts. Heyward -Bey, which everyone saw coming. Crabtree, product of the offense? Ted Ginn JR, was a reach in 1st rd, Anthony Gonzalez, also a reach, and Craig Davis??? If you feel Blackman is on these guys level then making a move for RG3 is a good one. If you feel Blackmon is more on the level of Andre Johnson, Kenny Britt, Hakeem Nicks, AG Green, Dez Bryant, Julio jones, Calvin johnson, and so on…. then allowing RG3 to be taken by someone else is key and I believe that as well. My only worry is that a WR in Minnesotta is not out of the question, and another scary scenario could be St Louis receiving a kings ransome for that #2 pick, and then trading back into the #3 pick for less than what they got, because Minnesota has needs all over and could probably still get a Morris Claiborne by trading back a couple.
given how miami finished the season, it’s going to be a SERIOUS price for them to pay to get into the top-3 picks.
also, i think you left something out when you listed all those great receivers from the 1st round … they all have good-to-great quarterbacks getting them the ball. i’m a firm believer that the qb makes the receiver way more than the receiver makes the qb … and even in cases where the wr helps the qb a ton (see: stafford/megatron), that qb has to be pretty damn good already, which colt is not.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 18, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, you beat me to it.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
QBs make the receiver, not the other way around. Megatron is the exception not the rule.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
QBs make the receiver, not the other way around. Megatron is the exception not the rule.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 19, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
QBs make the receivers, not the other way around. Megatron is the exception not the rule.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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