My top 10 wishlist for 2012:
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 25, 2012 11:21 AM EST
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PrintFirst and foremost, J.Blackmon if available at #4. Assuming he goes to the Rams:
1). Trade down to #14 -Jerry Jones would likely deal, a '12 1st and 2nd rd and '13 1st (possibly more), to keep RG3 in his home state of Texas. PlanB for Romo inury and/or mediocrity.
2). Draft OG Decastro or Glenn 14th ovr. -If we don't, Cincy, Pitt or Balt will. Earliest pick of a gaurd is 17th. Neither of them will be around at 22 (bengals pick 17 and 21). Lavauo is the weak link on O-line. With Steiny back, Pinkston can compete for RT, where he should thrive.
3). OLB Melvin Ingram* or WR Michael Floyd at #22. *(if looks like WR Alshon Jeffery will fall to 2nd round).
4). WR Jeffery or OLB Zach Brown* at #37. *(if Ingram was gone and we took Floyd at #22).
5). CB Chase Minnifield at #47(Dallas' 2nd). -Son of a Dawg. Clay Matthews Jr. Need I say more?
6). RB LaMichael James at #68. -Possible "factor back" like Harvin, Sproles and R.Bush.
7). FS Aaron Henry at #100. -Moves BossWard to SS. Also puts Pops Adams on the bench, where he belongs.
8). QB Brandon Weeden at #119. -Only looking for developmental and/or depth here. IMO, McCoy is an NFL starting caliber QB, and our playmakers can make plays, if we can get him some right-side protection (hence, the 1st pick/14ovr).
9). DE Shea Mclellin at #131. -M. Benard was dearly missed but, still not sold on J. Mitchell.
10). OLB Danny Trevathan at #164. -SEC leading tackler of '10 and '11. Can't pass on him in the 5th round. Draft 2 OLBs' and cut Fujita.
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Weeden is 29. Hell no to him. And both of our guards improved at the end of the season, against Baltimore and Pittsburgh defenses no less. And what do we do about WR’s? FA WRs don’t usually succeed.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 25, 2012 1:14 PM EST via Android app reply actions
If this entire thing did happen, I’d go root for Buffalo.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 25, 2012 1:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Weeden is a ‘fresh’ 29. Lavauo didn’t improve enough. Does J.Blackmon, M.Floyd or A.Jeffery, not address our WR needs? Or were you so quick to critisize that you only scanned my post? LOL NBD.
29 is 29.
His window to be a “good” QB is so much smaller than other guys. It’s an unneeded risk. If he was 7 years younger, I would love him as a prospect. But 7 years is an eternity in sports.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 25, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
4th rounder, 8th on my list. Like I said, I still believe in McCoy. So, if they don’t take Weeden here, I won’t mind. Just don’t see a need to take a QB sooner.
A better solution to our QB needs as many here say we need could be filled by Jason Campbell. he’s got experience as a starter, was actually doing well in Oakland before the inhjuries hit him. He’s better than our current backup, and could compete with McCoy (push him) to become our QB. He’s taller and does have a nice zip to his throws.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
I agree. Jason Campbell is a better qb who can throw a deep ball. If we get him, Blackmon would be a better option. A top deep threat is worthless if you have noone who can get him the ball.
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the Raiders will let him go.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
In dog years it’s like 150.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 27, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
But what would it be in “Dawg” years?
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 29, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
If you didn’t want other people’s opinion, you shouldn’t make fanposts. Plus, you said “assuming he goes to the Rams” about Blackmon, Floyd has character concerns, and Jeffery won’t last that long, which puts us leaving the draft with no WR.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 25, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, it’s all good. Critique away. NFLDraftScout.com currently has Alshon Jeffery rated #5WR/#45BPovr. Floyd and Jeffery are my favorites in the late 1st early 2nd rd. Sanu (early 2nd) or Randle (late 2nd). Blackmon is ‘my’ top pick, In my wishlist scenario (other than Blackmon), the Browns would have 4 picks in the top 47. I’d fear that H&H aren’t as good as, I think they are, if they didn’t strategize in order to get the highest possible ‘talent grade’ to fill needs. Just drafting best player available in ‘order of need’ isn’t going to pay high dividends.
I’d like t o see us make a play for Desean Jackson. Still young, a proven commodity and can stretch the field vertically. This FA could open up more choices in the draft to trade down and not lose out on an impact WR…AGAIN!
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
What impact WR did we miss out on again?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Only one I can think of is Green and we didn’t even “miss out” on him, he was taken before we had a chance, which means trading down had nothing to do with it.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 29, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Of all the second tier QBS I would probably take Weeden despite the age. Start him now you’ll get at least 5 years out of him if he doesn’t suck.
He’s still a stop gap though, you have to start grooming a franchise QB right behind him but Weeden will be cheap unless someone reaches (and someone will)
I’m not a huge Weeden fan. It’s just that, at #119, no other names jump out at me as must haves. The other names I like at this spot are likely not going to be available or they don’t fill a necessity either. So, stop gap QB is all I’m seeking at this point. I’m in the camp that feels, thier is nothing to gain by replacing McCoy before getting QB protection on the right-side and a down-field threat. In that order.
Big whoop, you act like finding a RT and a WR with speed is some sort of lost treasure. They’re are tons of people who can fill these spots any number of ways. I think they expected Pashos and Steinbach to be healthy and were wrong. They expected Robo to break out, he didn’t. You get new guys, its not a big deal, certainly nothing like finding a top 10 QB.
Only thing is that the lower you draft a WR, the less on an “impact” WR they are and more of a position filler. Like we have now. We are drafting where we are for a reason. We keep missing on selecting “impact” players to just filling squares.
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Do you really… honestly… expect a 29 year old rookie; a 4th round draft pick in this mock-up; someone who is older then 75% of our roster (or more) to be a “stop gap” as a rookie and on? Really?? Am I taking crazy pills or something? O and this guy comes from the same B12 that “doesnt make NFL QBs” or some nonsense like that. This is just a wasted pick, and if thats the case Id rather use it in a trade up to secure a QB who actually might be better then what we have on the roster.
AS A Stop gap..
A better solution to our QB needs as many here say we need could be filled by Jason Campbell. he’s got experience as a starter, was actually doing well in Oakland before the inhjuries hit him. He’s better than our current backup, and could compete with McCoy (push him) to become our QB. He’s taller and does have a nice zip to his throws
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
I don’t get the point of bringing in anyone we don’t think could be a franchise QB. We have a stopgap already.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Seems you have lost faith in McCoy before he get a ‘legit’ oppurtunity. McCoy is our stopgap? I think he’s the future if given protection and help. No QB will succeed without the two.
Colt McCoy has started 21 games, and has shown no growth.
That isn’t a protection problem, that isn’t a WR problem, that is a Colt problem. I wish he could have been the franchise savior, and will have a chance to do it next season.
But if we keep sitting around waiting for the light to go off for Colt and don’t bring in some competition, we will continue to get our asses kicked.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
H,H&S seem to disagree with you. Colt definitely has some work to do but I can’t judge him fairly under the current conditions.
They disagree with McCoy showing “no growth”. Seems doubt is slowly creeping in, but they’re not writing him off just yet. IMO, thats the correct approach at this point.
You, like C64 did in the opposite direction, are reading too much in to “coachspeak”. He basically read in to all the same quotes, that they didn’t want to keep McCoy around.
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by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
After 30 years of listening, I know the difference between “coach speak” and sincere honesty. What, are they afraid to hurt Colts feelings? They’re only concerned about McCoy because they DO want to keep him.
Insurance. You pay it just in case your house catches fire or you get in a car accident. Same thing applies here. You decide during the off-season that you really want this stud QB and you hope he falls to you. You also make sure to insure your current QB that you are confident in him just in case Someone trades ahead of you or someone ahead of you decides to jettison their 1st round pick QB in favor of said stud. You don’t want the guy already on your roster to think he’s lost your confidence if you have to trot him out as the starter the next season.
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by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Bingo.
They are going to trash the guy, but I don’t see any way that they don’t bring someone in to at least push him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Colt is not the answer…period. The sooner we all come to that realization, the less agony we will have next year with the 3rd pick in the draft, hoping Matt Barkley is the answer. RG3 is considered a 1A pick at QB. If we are going after a franchise QB, he’s a better risk and we may win some games.
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
When has a 6’0’’ weak-armed QB from the 3rd round been anything but a stopgap?
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Idk about a 3rd rounder but a 6’ weak-armed QB that comes to mind is Drew Brees, the 2nd QB and 33rd overall pick in ‘01.
McCoy was the 4th QB in ’10 and neither Clausen or Tebow have yet prove they’ll be a future francise QB. The injury prone #1Bradford and the Mistake@#2Tebow, will get another oppurtunity. This past season, McCoy threw for, more yards, a higher percentage of completion, most TDs and a better QB rating than either of them. If they’re being given a pass, Colt deserves one also. I’m not convinced McCoy is the future, but I do believe, there is still plenty of upside potential. The pessimism that comes along with being a Browns fan, has me worried that, if Colt were to be let go, he will shine somewhere else.
Drew Brees had better overall skills than Colt which is why he was drafted 32nd overall (not 33rd).
Just because neither Clausen nor Tebow is good and they were drafted ahead of him doesn’t mean that Colt will be good. The success rate for a 3rd round QB is extremely low. Either they are like Colt and have limited upside b/c they struggle to stretch the field and have limited skills, or they are a project guy like Foles.
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32nd. My bad. But still a 2nd rounder.
The point I was trying to make is that McCoy has been more productive than Bradford and Tebow, yet they’re not being written off (because thier fans don’t want RG3 and niether do I).
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
How many seasons can an injury be an excuse? Bradfords played like one full season in the last 4 years?
this is a complete exaggeration
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whether or not they are being written off is irrelevant to whether or not Colt should. Plus, at least Bradford has more upside and potential to be an elite QB based on his skills.
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Typical cleveland.com Browns fan – always scared of releasing bad players because they’ll be good somewhere else and always scared to take a QB high because Couch didn’t work out, despite the fact that he had far less tools than McCoy has had. The loser mentality has to go.
Typical? Not sure if your trying to insult me or not. LOL Nbd
I’m not scared to take a QB high. Just not RG3. What I don’t understand is: If so many are willing to trade up to #2 to draft RG3, why not go all the way and trade up to #1 for A.Luck? Sure, it’d cost a little more, but he’s more of a sure thing, where as, RG3 is not.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Just making a general observation.
What you seem not to understand is that Indy will want picks from multiple drafts while we can trade with the Rams probably for just our extra first or a second. Also what you don’t understand is that Luck is not any sort of sure thing. RG3 has all the tangibles and intangibles of Luck, he just didn’t play in a pro-style offense like Luck. That’s not as big a hurdle as some people make it, especially not for a smart, hard working QB like Griffin.
Lmao. What you don’t seem to understand is that, there are competing bidders for the trade up to #2 as well. That deal won’t come as cheap as you like to hope. As far as Luck goes, I said he’s “more of a sure thing”, not “a sure thing”. Luck was a top 5 pick had he entered last years draft. RG3 would have been lucky to be a 5th round pick (last year).
When April gets here, I’m guessing that some of these teams that are supposed contenders to move up to #2, will have filled the QB hole with other means.
I expect Miami to sign Flynn, Peyton Manning to be a Jet (which means Sanchez will find a starting job somewhere, possibly Seattle), the Redskins will make a run at Peyton but will probably be after someone else (Orton?).
Anyway you slice it, the supposed “fire sale” will be a bit more modest than people are expecting now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I can assure you, I have been saying Manning to the Jets (and the domino’s that will follow), much longer than ESPN.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
RG3 would have been lucky to be a 5th round pick (last year).
This shows your overall lack of research, knowledge, and understanding on the issue. I had definitely heard people talking about him as a possible 2nd rounder very early in this CFB season.
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How does, hearing early in 2011 season that, RG3 is a possible 2nd rounder, improve his draft 2011 draft stock? It doesn’t. I don’t need research to know and understand that. lol
We have agreed on very little, the last couple of days, but not until now, have I gotten a bad vibe from you. So, if your leading up to something, I’d suggest gettin’-to-it. I don’t want to correspond with those who make belittling remarks.
You’re being completely disingenuous. You said you never heard of him before this year and hinting that he’s a one year wonder. Bross is telling you that after his sophomore year he was a high second and was not a complete unknown. He’s not a one year wonder. He was good as a true freshman, damn good as a red-shirt sophomore and a Heisman winner as a redshit junior. But just keep comparing him to Russel, because that’s a lot easier than actually trying to get through your bias.
Disingenuous? Seems, rather insulting, don’t ya think? Bross wants me to believe he was a high 2nd, had he entered the 2011 draft. With no success, at this point. I’ve said “virtual unknown”. Never “complete unknown”. Whether or not he is a one year wonder, has yet to be seen. Sorry, HD but I don’t know you or Bross well you enough to take your word considering his success as an underclassman. I like to make up my own mind first, then give others a chance to change it. Rather than, vice versa.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
not to argue semantics, but I was talking projections of the beginning of the 2011 CFB season. He would most likely have been a 3rd rounder if he entered the draft last year.
The rise from 3rd to first was not just due to one great year, but from getting another full year of experience and looking more polished.
If he didn’t have this great year and just got an extra year of starting experience, he would still probably be a 2nd round pick (and this is absolutely no improvement and possibly some regression.
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I am not leading up to anything, except that I don’t think it’s correct to say that RG3 would have been lucky to be a 5th round pick as of last year.
Unlike other running QBs like Denard Robinson or Russell Wilson (who I have seen projected in the 4-6 round range), he has at least close to prototypical height and probably the best arm out of all of them. He was easily a significantly better prospect, just based on those skills.
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Prototypical. One of those words, the so-called experts like to use, that I dislike.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
it’s a prototype for a reason. It generally works. Few elite QBs ever survive at 6’0’’…and do NOT bring up drew brees. as TDSH pointed out in some thread today, he is like Tom Brady in that he is the exception to several rules.
The rules are there for a reason, because generally the guys that fall along those (mannings, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers) rules have a good deal of success and a much higher possibility of success in the league.
I have always been a believer that arm strength is overrated in some capacity, but QBs have to have it. BQ didn’t show it consistently and neither did Colt.
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Andrew Luck is essentially out of the equation. It would cost A LOT more, most likely.
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Peyton Manning and the 2011 Colts disagree.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
This times a million. It amazes me that people keep making this argument when we all just saw the best counter example in the last decade.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Nope.avi
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 25, 2012 1:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Damn that doesn’t work on the app.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 25, 2012 1:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
There is no way Jerry Jones trades to take a QB.
If we passed on one of the “elite” QB’s, we damn well better make a huge splash with the other picks. I like Ingram, but I don’t see this draft as a “impact” draft.
We need an impact draft.
Idk, he might. Drafting RG3 would put some ‘serious’ pressure on Romo. Cowboys fans are getting a little irritated with Romo. In my ‘wish’ scenario, I want to trade-down but no further than 15th. Jones seems to me, the most likely candidate to do a trade, if only because of his success rate on past trades with the Browns’ FOs.
Romo is a damn good QB. No one, Jerry Jones included, is going to use a first round pick, much less a trade up, to take a QB to simply “pressure” the franchise QB he already has.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
I had lived in “Cowboys Country” for many many years. I’ve heard everything about them disected over and over again. Romo does rightfully have the reputation for choking in the BIG games (Farve wannabe) and, I hope that Jerry Actually starts to think about that more. Tony’s NOT getting younger and with the quality of WR’s that they have, RGIII would be a refreshing addition and add a needed quality there. If there was an owner who could pull the trigger for doing a “Julio” type of trade it’s Jerry.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
If we trade down the only team it should be with is Cinci and it should be for both of their firsts and their second. 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders so they can trade up for Richardson.
3 first rounders is enticing but we need to beat division rivals to the punch. Here, near Columbus, Bengals fans want a top OG at #17 and Michael Floyd at #21, whether they resign Benson or not (Leonard considered thier best RB). IMO, if the Browns give Cincy another top 5 talent, it won’t be the Pitt or Balt that we need to measure up against. Bengals already have a lot of young talent. Steelers and Ravens are getting old. Bengals’ weakest link is Marvin Lewis
I don’t think Richardson is a top 5 talent. He is top 10, maybe top 15. He will probably go top 5, but he will be overdrafted imo and I have no problem with letting Cincy overdraft him while getting 2 extra firsts so we can have 17, 21, and 22.
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I agree with you on Richardson. I don’t believe Cincy would trade up to #4 to take him. IMO, Blackmon would be the Bengals’ target at #4 (AJ Green and J.Blackmon together would be devistate me). If Blackmon drops to #4, he’s “not for sale”.
they have shitty RBs and their WRs after green aren’t bad.
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Their “shitty” RBs run all-over the Browns, year after year lol. The thinking around here is Bengals want a Gaurd to improve running game and a dual-threat, downfield passing attack. They haven’t been happy at G since losing Steiny to the Browns.
Benson somehow has the Browns’ number even when our rushing D is good. They could definitely use an upgrade.
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Benson has been decent and played well against us as most AFCN RBs do, that’s just a fact I’m willing to admit, and hope it gets better. That said, if they want to reach on Richardson it would suck having to play him, but it would also sucks if we couldn’t one day get a run D that could smother other RBs. Until then he could always blow an ACL in tc.
Benson has average above 4 ypc once in 4 years in Cincy. He isn’t a great blocker, and not a threat to catch out of the backfield. He has also been very fumble prone the last couple years. He has about 900 carries over the last 3 years, part of why he has over 1,000 yards every one of those years.
He is league average at his best.
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Feeling is Bengals wont offer much, if any, to retain Benson. I’d love to see Cincy trade away picks to move up for Richardson, but I don’t see that happening. There are to many quality FAs on the market.
Are there a lot of good FA RBs out there? I don’t know of any in particular off the top of my head.
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Here are the RB FAs I consider “better” than C.Benson:
A.Foster, M.Forte, M.Lynch, R.Rice, M.Bush, M.Tolbert, R.Grant, K.Bell, K.Smith and BJ.Green-Ellis.
Other notables: P.Hillis, T.Hightower, L.Tomlinson, R.Brown
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I would consider almost any free agent running back better than Benson.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 29, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Foster I believe is a restricted FA.
Rice and Forte are most likely going to be resigned/franchised…well, Forte is less clear because of the injury.
After that, you have Lynch, and a bunch of situational backs. I think Benson sucks and most guys are better than Benson, but I don’t see a ton of guys I’d like to have starting.
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You didn’t ask, which RBs the Bengals have a high chance of landing. You only asked what RB FAs, if any, were good. Kahlil Bell is a top candidate because of the fact Forte will be retained.
Bengals would be smart to just go with Benard Scott.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
No thanks on an OG that high.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 25, 2012 1:51 PM EST reply actions
Thomas/Steinbach/Mack/Decastro (or Glenn)/Pinkston. I would love it! (for years to come). Would prove to be an even smarter move if Steiny dont last.
Usually drafting guards that high is never smart.
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by SpecialBrownie on Jan 25, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
That may be. But, thinking inside-the-box isn’t very smart either. Pays more to spot trends early rather than late.
The price is too much when compared to the value. I think we should focus on a skill position that high. You can find serviceable Gs in the 3rd and later.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 25, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I almost agree. 4th overall is too high. Trading down to 14th or so (must pick before Cincy at #17), would beat the previous record of OG Mike Iupati at #17 in 2010. I doubt the Niners feel they ‘reached’ for him. Not going to waste a wish on a “serviceable G”. But rather, for an all-pro O-line, across the board. Imo, Pinkston has more potential at RT against quicker but smaller LDEs (Lavauo has limited potential). Focus on skill players is definitely a priority but this draft is WR top-heavy. There will be a WR with #1 potential into the 2nd round.
Absolutely no way to a guard @14. We need a RT way more than a mere guard. Agree with Henry. Besides, dealing with the devil only got us trouble (Brady Quinn) last time.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Jan 26, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t like it either, but feel it’s a necessity. The Browns need to beat Division foes looking for Guards, to the punch. Steelers, Ravens have a history of drafting O-lineman early and the Bengals are in dire need of a G, with picks #17 and #21. I fear if we don’t draft Decastro or Glenn, atleast one of them will be opening up holes in the Browns’ D-line, twice a year, for years to come.
What if, Decastro is BPA at #14 (and we actually had that pick). You still pass on him?
If it’s an RT you prefer, Cordy Glenn has the size, speed and versatility to play any o-line position. IMO, neither will be on the board at #22. Mike Brown loves Bulldogs almost as much as redheads. lol
I look for the Bengals to draft a G and another WR in the 1st round. While, purusuing M.Tolbert, K.Bell or B.Green-Ellis in FA to replace Benson.
“A mere guard”. Most underestimated/unappreciated position in the game.
Not a basis. Only a consideration in pre-draft strategizing.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
We shouldn’t base our draft picks on fear of what other AFCN teams might do, that’s too much negative thinking. Like playing not to lose instead of playing to win. And yes I would say that finding a RT is more omportant than finding a guard. We have a couple of guys who can play guard. We don’t seem to have anyone who can play right tackle.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Jan 27, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Like playing not to lose instead of playing to win
This is the same mentality that they have about drafting a QB high – too risky. Better to keep drafting linemen and take flyers on guys like Colt.
I’m fairly hog certain the current regime isn’t scared away from QBs just because of the Browns’ past failures at the position. If they are, fire them immediately.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
And so on and so forth until you find the one that works.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
Similar actions achieve similar results. We’ll never “find one that works” if we cant keep them upright long enough to make a clean release.
You wont win this arguement. These guys believe that it doesn’t matter how good your line is, as long as you have a top 10 QB. me, I’d rather have the Rock Star O & D line and build off of that. The way we used to be, before the “Its a different NFL” now game.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
I know I wont change anyones mind but it’s what you and I believe and I will stand by it til proven otherwise (which will be never). LOL We have Browns history on our side.
But you don’t have facts. The Browns have a pretty decent line in terms of pass protection. Every sensible stat backs that up. Teams with much worse lines than us win a lot of games with good QBs. I’m not saying we can win with a bunch of scrubs, I’m saying we can live with the line we have now.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
39 sacks and 83 QB hits on 570 attempts. That’s a Browns QB on his back 1 in 4.5 attempts. Seems below avg. to me.
How many of those were a 3 step drop where Colt dropped back and didn’t get rid of the ball?
I’m guessing a fair amount. Plus, he got rattled. He looked at the rush far too often.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I did see a rattled McCoy. More so, as they got deeper into the season. It’s possible that was at least partly due to a lack of confidence in his protection.
I agree, but a QB has to shake that off.
The 49ers beat the crap out of Eli last Sunday, but Eli kept standing in the pocket making big throw after big throw.
You have to have onions to be a QB in this league.
My honest opinion is McCoy still hasn’t gotten over the hit he took in the NC game.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
You may be right. But like I said, I need to see more before I right McCoy off. My expectations, this coming season, are for Colt to know the system inside-out. This will give him the ability to audible a lot more than he did this past season. All the great QBs, use the audible quite frequently, every game. I hate to admit I was wrong about Eli before but, his use of the audible has finally changed my negative opinion of his skill level.
If he didn’t have confidence in his protection he wouldn’t be holding on to the ball for so long like he does, dropping back and pump faking 2 or 3 times each play. If he has lack of confidence in anyone it would be his WRs and it would also help to explain why he holds on to the ball so long. If I’m a QB and I think my line is suspect, I’m getting rid of the ball the second I even think I see a WR make a cut, a break, or gain any semblance of separation.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
you realize how many attempts 570 is? Hell of a lot. Browns QBs got sacked on 6.8% of attempts. That’s right around the league average (which was 6.7%).
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by bross09 on Jan 28, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is exactly what I am talking about.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Because Colt holds on to the ball way too long. He doesn’t have the ability to throw a receiver open, and he keys in on receivers too much. It’s not the line’s fault if the QB doesn’t deliver the ball.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
This isn’t a “Couch behind street free agents” kind of situation anymore.
We need to address RT/RG at some point in time, but we are pretty good overall at OL.
We have to address QB. It is a must.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. Overall, we are very good from center left. All I’m saying is the sooner in the draft we address the right side the better we’ll be for a longer period of time. A One-n-done season isn’t good enough for me.
No one is saying that we shouldn’t address the right side at some point.
But there is no sane argument to be made that RT should take precedent over QB. We can find a RT late in draft, in free agency, etc.
You aren’t going to do that with a QB. That is the difference.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
The difference is: I wouldn’t be looking for a QB anywhere (this year). I say shore up the right-side and downfield threats, then if we need a QB in 2013, he’ll have it.Without them McCoys replacement will have the same potential to fail.
Why keep putting it off?
We have the ammo this season, why roll the dice and continue to wait. The longer we go without a QB, the longer we suck.
It’s that simple.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
If your QB is there that you think can be the guy, you gotta take him. You can’t put it off in the hope that someone in a later draft can maybe be the guy. The Browns could easily get a downfield threat, a RT AND RG3.
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There’s the real difference. I don’t think RG3 is “the guy”. Otherwise, like you, I would take him. LOL
and at this point, it’s a matter of opinion and no offense, I will put more trust in those professionals that will likely be taking him top 5.
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Really, I dont have any confidence in the Browns running game, or passing game. The run sets up the pass and the reverse is true also, unless your WR corps just plain out stinks – our teams WR’s did, though a rookie with a dropsie problem is our best WR.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
What makes you so sure there will be a franchise QB available to us in 2013?
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
What makes you so sure RG3 will be a franchise QB?
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
What makes him any different from anyone you would want in ’13?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I won’t know who I want in 2013 until we see where our weaknesses are in 2012. lol
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously.
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by North Coast Flea on Jan 29, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely nothing. Nothing can make anyone sure that a guy is going to be a franchise QB. I think Griffin has a good chance.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 29, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
2011 Colts. They went from a SB contender with Manning in ‘10 to #1 overall pick. His O-line is a joke and he made every single player on his offense’s career.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
You must be joking, cuz I’m LMAO. Jeff Saturday is no joke (I’ll give you, he is getting old). 3 starters on thier o-line with 2 or less years. Costanzo was thier 1st pick last year. Reitz and Linkenbach (from Sandusky, Ohio. He can’t suck.) had 1 and 2 years experience, respectively. Without Peyton leading, thier whole team laid down for 2011. Way to early to say Indys o-line sucks.
Indy on a whole, sucks without Manning.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
That O-Line was horrid.
They haven’t been able to run block for years. All’s they had to do was block for 2 seconds, and let Manning do his thing.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you highlighted the exact point. It’s a different game and it is much more focused on the QB. The QB can make his O-Line look better by getting the ball out quick.
The line wasn’t piss poor this year, even though at times it looked like it. The thing is, expecting your O-Line to be able to hold their blocks for 5+ seconds consistently and not let pressure on the QB isn’t very realistic. But Colt can’t get it out in under 5.
I do agree with you on the D-Line though. See: NY Giants.
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You can use the same arguement for the quality of the WR’s. If they cant get any type of seperation or any decent route running, the QB has to hold the ball or throw it away. I believe it’s a HUGE combination of the two, with more of the blame to go on the WR’s. I would love to add Jeffery and Sanu, start them with Little – I would Get rid of MoMass,keep Norwood, & Cribbs for special teams only and the occasional twist in the offensive play calling.
The main reason I dont want RGIII this year is 1 – Not convinced he’s the answer. 2- Not enough talented WR’s to even make look good. 3- Another QB to at least take a season to get the hang of the WCO. 4- The biggest reason besides #1 is, We could conceiveably turn the #4 draft pick into 2 to 3 really high quality impact players, and that is something that is sorely needed on this team.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
It’s not always up to the WR to create separation. A QB can “create” separation where their is none by placing the ball where it needs to be so only his WR can get it. You don’t need all-pro WRs to create separation, an all-pro QB can do it just as well.
Just like a QB can make his OL look better, he can make his WRs look better.
I understand point 1.
Point two, I kinda disagree with because I think an elite QB can make these WRs look better. I also think we don’t need to draft a WR in the first to get a starter.
3. Another QB shouldn’t be handed the starting reins and if he takes a little time to learn it, start Colt.
4. Trade Down again? If you have a franchise QB in your sights, you don’t trade down.
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That all depends on if you believe that the QB in question is a “franchise” QB, and what you get in return. I don’t believe there will be a firesale type of situation for RGIII at QB, but I do believe there will be opportunity if given the right trade partner to add those impact players.
I’m also not so jazzed on the Big 12 QBs most of the time. I prefer SEC/ Big 10 QB’s due to higher level of talent on those conferences defenses. I liked and still like McCoy, since I saw him play high school ball. The guys a competitor, and when he fails, he works harder to not fail. I like someone who will work there tail off to get it done.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
SEC QBs bust a lot too. Jamarcus Russell anyone? Like someone else pointed out, the SEC defenses also didn’t face a lot of good QBs so their Ds may be skewed some.
Who are the elite QBs that SEC Ds faced? Not a lot. Out of conference, Tannehill and Geno Smith are the best QBs SEC teams faced and they didn’t exactly completely shut those guys down even though they aren’t as elite as RG3. I don’t buy into the whole “only SEC or Big-10 QBs”.
The guys a competitor, and when he fails, he works harder to not fail. I like someone who will work there tail off to get it done.
so you would like RG3. The guy who was determined to be a QB even though colleges wanted to make him a WR. The guy who was determined to graduate in 3 years.
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You all just made the argument to select RG3. He would be able to turn alot of those negative plays into positive ones. We would definately get some excitement from a deep ball more than once a game. RT in the second round. Use FA to help boost OL with NFL-ready and tested.
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Funny, considering even with all the injuries and the revolving door of players at RT we have one of the better lines in the league. Colt has long enough to throw the ball, he’s just not getting it done.
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by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
It seems to me that, those who are ‘high’ on RG3 have given up hope on McCoy and those ‘passing’ on him have not.
I myself am very “meh” on McCoy. I’ll be a bit happier if we do drafts RG3, even though I hope McCoy turns out to be the guy. I just haven’t seen much evidence that proves he will.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
Just guessing, but I bet you were less “meh” before RG3. For me, RG3 reminds me more of all the top 5 drafted QBs that busted, than of those that have proved to be successful.
Can you show me anything to back up your opinion that RG3 is like all of the QB busts he reminds you of? Or is it just a Butch Davis “gut feeling”?
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
I’ll just say, I’m not willing to risk losing a top 5 talent for a guy that had 1 good year in college. You can argue that he had more than one good year but he wasn’t on anyones radar before 2011.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
RG3 most likely, wouldn’t get a chance to start before week 13, without an injury to McCoy. IMO, drafting RG3 is the same as writing off the 2012 season in April. Blackmon would contribute to the Browns week 1.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
RG3 most likely, wouldn’t get a chance to start before week 13
Why is that? Do you know something I don’t know?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 29, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
I know that he doesn’t know the system as well as McCoy. Therefore, McCoy will start and barring injury, won’t be benched before the season is lost.
McCoy learned the offense well enough in a shortened offseason to be the starter over a guy who knew the offense backwards and forwards (Wallace).
Why? Because he was better. If RG3 shows he is better, there is no reason to think that he wouldn’t be the starter.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So you think RGIII would have had a better season than McCoy did, even though we had musical chairs at the RB and O line positions, and with how weak our WR corp is?
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Yes.
I think the blaming of the RB’s, WR’s and OL is a cop out.
Sure that kind of stuff played a role, but if you are a good QB, you can make plays in today’s NFL, damn the surrounding situation.
Look at Jay Cutler. His O-Line sucks. His WR’s are horrible, and yet he puts up numbers and wins.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
In defense of McCoy. Cutler’s numbers were similar to McCoy’s his first 2 seasons and he didn’t win until his 5th season.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Cutler had more yards, higher YPA, better TD/INT ratio and a higher CMP%.
Other than that, they are carbon copies.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I only said similar….McCoy’s YPA was the only significant difference because it dropped this year. Cutler fumbled more and had 9 TD’s over 21 games more than McCoy. McCoy career 58 Cutler career 61 CPCT.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
you forgot Comp % too. We are talking a difference in 3 key stats in favor of cutler and all significant differences.
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even if you could say “oh this guy’s numbers are similar to Colt’s, etc…”, it’s not the case. Cutler only once posted a QB rating under 70. Cutler had a good completion percentage almost every season and he can stretchthe field.
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I would give a nut to have Cutler as our QB. I’m stating he didn’t get significantly better than McCoy until his third season.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
False. He was much better already in his 2nd. Look at the tape and the numbers.
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I did look. Not that impressed with his or McCoy’s first 2 seasons. Now, Cutler’s third season, when he jumped to 280 yds a game was very impressive.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
oh…so his 2nd season where he completed 63% of his passes, threw for abotu 3500 yards, and had a QB rating 14 points higher than Colt’s ever produced?
I think i know what you are looking at. Total yards a game again, just like you did with DQ. Sure, he only threw for about 10 yards a game more than Colt in their 2nd years. You can’t just look at 1 stat with players, especially with QBs.
He had about 10 more ypg with a ypa that was a ton higher (7.5 compared to 5.9). If Cutler ranked even middle of the road in attempts that year (Denver’s D struggled to get off the field) that year, he would have thrown for over 200 more total yards or another 15 ypg.
Cutler was far superior to Colt.
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Wow dude….you win…I don’t care as much as you.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
it’s not about caring as much. I just don’t get your justification at all for Cutler being anywhere near as mediocre as Colt. I just seriously doubt you looked up his QBR before coming to that.
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Is this what they mean by Brossian?
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 30, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Not even close.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 30, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow has proven to me that, with a defense that can give your offense more oppurtunities to score, even a terrible QB can win games. IMO, Tebow is proof that the QB position is overrated. Even in the “new” NFL.
This is so backwards.
The Bronco’s are the exception, not the rule.
Plus, the Bronco’s can’t wait to get a better QB in there.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow has made me seriously believe in the existence of some outside force in Denver.
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Tim Tebow was this year’s wildcat formation. D’s will have him figured out now that there’s tape on him.
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by North Coast Flea on Jan 29, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
You can say the same for Jones out of OU. Very similar system, and he’s been on the radar for a lot longer. I think with RGIII, your just seeing the same product.
Who’s to say that Jones, Barkley, or even Murray who have been seen and play in programs that are more widely followed, aren’t better than RGIII. he’s had one really standout year.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Exactly. Did all of the pre-season Heismann candidates all of sudden go bad, just because an unknown stepped up and won it? I don’t think so.
RG3 was far from an unknown…maybe he was to people who only watch ESPN and follow the national media. He was fairly well known in CFB circles.
And some of the preseason heisman candidates like Landry did go bad. Landry had a poor season and choked in big games whereas RG3 stepped up in those games (including against Jones’ top 5 ranked Sooners)
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I lived in Big 12 Country for a long time before moving around this time last year. I watched many games of this conference and I did like RGIII but I never thought of him being a 1st round guy before. He had one standout season in a conference not really known for having great defenses. I’m not sold……..
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Name me a QB that was considered a 1st round talent this year that came from a conference with elite defenses? They are all from the Big-12 or Pac-10 and the Ds in the Pac-10 this year were no better than the Big-12.
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Good point. The popular, college hype, QBs come from weak defensive conferences. The proven best NFL QBs play college ball in defensive powerhouse conferences. One more reason, for me, to not want RG3 and fear C.Newton.
You mean like Jamarcus Russell or Tebow coming out of the SEC?
The SEC may be partly inflated from not playing elite QBs and if you wait for an SEC QB to come out so you can draft a QB, you might have to wait because you may not get your guy even when he comes out.
It’s ridiculous to say the “college hype” guys are the Big-12 Pac-10 players when you compared the “college hype” around RG3 to an SEC player. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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Nope, I am saying that people who watched CFB a good amount and didn’t just watch ESPN highlights would know who RG3 was.
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do you watch every single game they have shown? How many games did you see RG3 play before 2011? I saw him 3 times, vs. Buffalo, vs, Illinois, and vs Oklahoma. For those first 2 games, he was definitely on my radar.
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Honestly, none. I can’t recall seeing so much as even a highlight of Baylor vs. Buffalo or Ilinois. Maybe a very small number of them vs. OU.
Seems a waste of air time in 2010. lol Obviously, I’m only kidding here, since I didn’t see to know.
Illinois was a Bowl game where he performed well.
I spent a year at Buffalo so I watched that game with some friends. That is a waste of air time because of how much they stink
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Followed by a couple years that are excellent and about as good as anything some of these other guys have done.
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Being on the radar is completely irrelevant. Cam Newton wasn’t on anyone’s radar before Auburn’s NC year either.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Thier is a difference. Cams amazing season won him the Heisman vs. good defenses and was capped off with an NC. IMO, that makes the hype around Newton more deserved.
That was also Cam’s first season as a starter at QB. This was Griffin’s 3rd (4th if he hadn’t been injured as a sophmore).
It doesn’t make it more deserved at all. There is a little rule a lot of people use to judge QBs. It’s called the 26-27-60 rule because QBs who start 27 games, have a 26 Wonderlic, and complete 60% of passes have a higher chance of panning out.
I don’t remember what Cam’s wonderlic was and we don’t know what RG3s is, but RG3 clearly has. Cam started maybe 14 games at the most.
This is a list of the best QBs to start under 27 games.
Flacco
Vick
Newton
Carr
Harrington
Akili Smith
Leaf
That doesn’t look like a very good list at all. No Rodgers or mannings or even Rivers types. Without 2+ years of experience playing QB, scouts have less tape on guys so they are more risky and they also are not as honed in their craft…so yeah, it was not more deserved.
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Please tell me who he reminds you of?
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Talent wise and hype-level, Jamarcus Russell for one. It wasn’t til later we discovered his lack of intelligence.
when you said “top 5 QBs that busted”, I knew you were going to make this lazy comparison.
You realize you are comparing a QB who is 6’5’’ 270 to a guy who is 6’2’’ 220? Russell could eat RG3 alive just based on size, and probably would if he got the chance.
maybe talent-level, sure I can buy it, but not talent wise.
Russell had an amazingly strong arm, a bit of mobility, and huge size. RG3 has average size, a very good arm (but not amazingly strong), and great scrambling ability.
Griffin also has more experience in college than RG3. Russell had 454 attempts in his first 2 seasons…funny enough, the exact same number that RG3 had just last in 2010.
A less lazy comparison would be VY, but that’s still lazy in it’s own way. VY was much more a running QB and didn’t have the size of RG3
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Talent level, of course. I don’t consider talent-type, when accessing likelyhood to be a bust.
You also forgot to mention, Russell played agianst, consistently better defenses in college.
Yes. I am having a lazy spell. That’s why I’m @ DBN. lol And yes, I like the comparison to Vince Young better. I’m still not all that impressed with him either. Although, the potential is still there.
Now that you mentioned it, IF I’m writing McCoy off for a Big 12 QB with potential, it’s VY. He can step in and take over immediately, if necessary. Which you seem to think it is.
Correction: …for ‘another’ Big 12 QB with potential,.
Why give up early on the winningest B12 QB of all time, for a Heismann winner with one amazing season? The risk vs. reward is to big of a gamble. It’s like betting a conservative 3rd rounder vs. a risky Top 4 pick, for the same reward. The reward being a consistent playoff contender.
For the record: I respect the way you present your view. You make a lot of good points. But, the only one that will change my mind on RG3 is RG3. IF he does, I hope he ends up on a team I dont despise. lol
yeah, WINNINGEST!!!1
This is the list of QBs who also won 35+ games in their college career
Dalton
David Greene
Peyton
Ken Dorsey
Rick Leach
Leinart
Lefevour
John Rauch
Chuck Ealey
Pennington
Jay Barker
Tim Tebow
Eric Crouch
Chuck Long
These 14 players have been to a total of 11 pro bowls…all earned by Peyton manning. What you see are a lot of system QBs who had great college careers but did jack squat in the pros.
The only guy who looks like he might break the mold is Dalton.
The risk vs. reward is to big of a gamble.
I completely disagree when you are talking about QBs that are first rounders. You say the same reward but it’s NOT. Take away Brady, and how many guys have won Super Bowls from the 3rd round-7th round? None.
The rate of guys turning out to be good QBs in the 2nd round or later is about 5%. When I say turning out, I mean competent starter with the floor being Garrard. For the first roiund, the rate is just under 50%.
A QB with Griffin’s talent is 10 times more likely to be a legit QBOTF than one with Colt’s talent.
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by bross09 on Jan 29, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Shouldn’t Colt be on this list? Also your last 2 posts should be required reading. Do a fan post and I’ll rec it for sure.
Ok. I will definitely consider it. I forgot to say “besides Colt”.
And with how crappy Colt has been here, the fact that he has started 21 games puts him in the top 5 (top third) of these QBs.
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I don’t consider talent-type, when accessing likelyhood to be a bust.
stop changing the argument. you were saying he reminds you of top 5 busts. You said Jamarcus Russell. You were not assessing the likelihood he would bust but making a comparison to Russell.
And if you were, you can’t use any sort of player comparison to assess whether a guy would be a bust.
Russell also sucked hard for a while against those consistently better Ds.
I actually think the best comparison for the skill set RG3 has is Steve Young coming out of college. He was from a shotgun offense, had similar size, arm, experience, and athleticism to Young.
I think his career Trajectory will be more like mcnair who is also similar (also 6’2’’) but is a little bigger (about 230 pounds) and went to a much smaller school.
I think out of the “athletic QBs” projected/taken in the 1st round in the last decade (VY, Russell, Akili Smith, Freeman, Newton), I would say with a lot of confidence that RG3 is the safest of the bunch. That’s not saying much, but he was safer than Newton and look at what Newton has done. That’s his floor, imagine what a more polished QB’s floor could be.
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Sorry dude. But, I don’t see where I’m changing anything.
In part of assessing RG3s likelyhood to bust, I compare his talent level, and the hype that comes with it, to that of J.Russell.
Did you just say, Newtons accomplishments, thus far, are the floor for RG3? Wow! Now, That we be bold.
I compare his talent level, and the hype that comes with it, to that of J.Russell.
Ok, but that alone doesn’t have bust written all over it. Peyton manning had tons of hype coming out. he also had insane talent. He didn’t bust.
That is why it’s not a good argument saying “he is talented and people like him” as why he will bust…and then compare him to a more talented player who he doesn’t compare at all to.
You aren’t proving anything, even to someone who agrees with you. Your logic is all off there.
Did you just say, Newtons accomplishments, thus far, are the floor for RG3?
RG3 has about twice as many starts at QB as Newton, maybe even more. He is much more polished than Newton was coming out. As a QB, if Newton can do that, I am confident a QB who has an 80 QB Rating (which is still below league average) is the floor for RG3.
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I’ve only said, RG3 reminds me “more of” J.Russell type hype/talent level, than than he does of A.Luck or C.Newton type. Did I say, “bust written all over him”? If I did I’ll retract that statement, here.
IMO, Peytons hype wasn’t over-inflated. Because he had success in the SEC, for more than one season.
See there, another belittling remark. You don’t want to agree with a single word I say, so your portraying me in your minds eye as some sort of moron. Then you trying to put words into my mouth is an attempt to convince your click? “"he is talented and people like him" as why he will bust”? Really? Wow. Talking about reading way to much into something.
You string your words together nicely, and make good use of stats, making you seem intelligent, but you’re not really proving any thing to me either.
Newton fewer starts came against much greater competition. A full season in the SEC followed by a full NFL season. Newtons half as many starts are double the quality.
This convo has taken on the feel as though I’m having a convo with someone drinking. Switching from a debate to an arguement. I’m out.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
for more than one season
RG3 had success before this year. He just wasn’t a heisman contender, he was putting up solid numbers.
Did I say, "bust written all over him"
no, but you said
In part of assessing RG3s likelyhood to bust, I compare his talent level, and the hype that comes with it, to that of J.Russell.
so your assessment of whether or not RG3 is a bust includes a comparison to one of the biggest busts in history? And you are saying you don’t think he is a huge bust now?
See there, another belittling remark. You don’t want to agree with a single word I say,
what belittling remark? That your logic is off? It is. I don’t care personally whether I agree with you or not. Even TLP who I disagree with a lot and is more established, I will agree with if I actually agree. To me, you are an anonymous commenter I have no personal opinion about.
Newton fewer starts came against much greater competition.
And as Rufio pointed out either in this thread, or B19Ks thread, even the high and mighty SEC is a signficant step below the NFL.
I am fine with you being out. It’s your call, but I am sober and am not seeking an argument.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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clique
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 30, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I would be ecstatic if McCoy would have been the guy.
But the days of a QB needing seasons to figure things out are a thing of the past. It used to be that kids came out college and needed to learn almost everything anew.
That’s not the case anymore. The NFL has adapted so many spread aspects that the learning curve is no longer that steep. A guy coming into the NFL, should be able to show you something other than a glimpse here and there, in 21 games.
Sometimes, a guy is just a guy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t fully given up hope on Colt. there is still a glimmer. You just have to take the clear upgrade in potential at the most important position in the league if you see it.
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I can agree with that. Only I don’t see RG3 as a “clear upgrade”.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand this at all. How do you think Colt has anywhere near the upside as a guy with a great arm and wheels…plus is an unknown in the NFL and hasn’t shown he sucked over 21 games?
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So instead of the unknown you would go with the guy who has already sucked in his first 21 games?
How does that make any sense?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Pinkston and Little did thier share of sucking, yet I still recognized thier potential. I know, they were rookies. McCoy was essentially a rookie as well.
Except they play Guard and not QB, which is slightly more important to have high skill, leadership and intelligence. Colt probably has intelligence but he’s not skilled enough and I question his ability to be a leader to NFL caliber players. He comes off a little whiny and self-centered. His play reflect this as he is more concerned with throwing an INT than trusting his receiver to make a catch.
that’s not the point. The point is that Colt is a known entity. The longer you suck in the NFL and the more experience you get without improving, your window of opportunity to reach your potential narrows.
Right now, Colt’s window is quite narrow because it wasn’t particularly wide anyways. RG3s is wider than Colt’s was when he was drafted.
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Better to keep drafting QBs without ‘enough’ protection and continue to be seen around the nation as, “the team that ruins Quaterbacks”? I travel a lot and I wear my brown n orange proud. I’m tired of hearing it.
We had decent pass protection last season.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 27, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve had decent protection the last few years now.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 27, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think people that are afraid of a first round QB use this as a crutch, despite the fact that it hasn’t been true for several years.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
It seems like some think you have to have 5 all pro linemen to make the playoffs.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, actually.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
in terms of importance LT>>>>RT. Left side has the most importance, and we are also good in the middle.
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Obviously, “decent” isn’t good enough to be .500 when the starting QB is alway ‘learning’ the system.
I don’t care what anyone else says, a rock solid line on both sides of the ball will “enable” the O & D roll players on the team to elevate their game! There’s no arguing that, because it’s true.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
by J. W. on Jan 28, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know what else will enable those role players to elevate their game? A quarterback.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You’ve got to have the roll players for the QB to elevate. The Browns don’t have them right now on offense. We’ve got most of what is needed on defense, but we dont have any real depth there either.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
You’ve got to have the roll players for the QB to elevate.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
role players
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 29, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for the english lesson. Now what makes you say that, gee is it P. Manning or Brady? Those type of QB’s don’t come along often and it takes a lot to get them there. We do not have the talent to elevate on offense, even with one of those types of QB’s. RGIII will not be the answer, though if our front office takes him, I will support him. I just think it’s a waste of the #4 pick and you don’t. Oh well, we disagree, what else is new?
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
by J. W. on Jan 31, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Now what makes you say that
It’s a pet peeve. I also know I’m not the only one around here with it.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 31, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Happy to see I can still piss people off very easily….
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Never said I was pissed.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 31, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Damn……. I tried… <a href="http://[URL=http://media.photobucket.com/image/funny gif/mjm7308/Dance.gif?o=3][IMG]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll54/mjm7308/th_Dance.gif[/IMG][/URL" >
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
The comedic coincidence in this post is delicious.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 31, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Idk about J.W. but I’ve NEVER seen you say you were pissed. But, you come off as an angry dude. Just my opinion. Not to late to change it.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, that’s pretty funny since I’ve always considered myself as a comedian and most people around here think I’m pretty laid back. Sarcastic definitely but pissed off? No way. I would be interested in what the regulars think though.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 4:22 AM EST up reply actions
too* late
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Sorry NTN, but I can tell you right now that is one annoyance you’ll just have to get used to. I’ve always been troubled with, to and too. Grammar wasn’t *too important in the south (where I went to elementary school).
"...and Dawggone it, people like me".
Peeves don’t make good pets. I never have understood the popularity in them. Must be the ‘lake effect’.
we’re not talking about Peeves here, but NCF. Peeves is a grade A annoyance.
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David Carr would suck behind 5 All Pro lineman.
Until you have a QB, you are a sitting duck.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, he has sucked. But to say he would suck behind 5 all-pro lineman is a little to bold for me to support.
I’ll support it ‘when’ he sucks behind 5 allpro lineman. lol
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Nope. McCoy should know the system by the beginning of 2012 season. So,with ‘more’ protection and an ‘legit’ downfield threat (commanding a double team once in awhile would be nice) and this is his last shot (I promise. LOL).
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no team in the NFL that has 5 pro bowl lineman. I’m guessing there never was either.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
Well then, the Browns could be the first. Got 3 already,an impressive rookie in Pinkston and handful of potential allpro caliber lineman in the draft.
I’m all for it*
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 30, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I made this argument once….still getting all the poo off that was flung at me. Something about getting a fiercely mean inside linebacker before our AFC North opponents do.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
YES! Just like the monkey cage at the zoo
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Lol. We all have….I still have some under my own fingernails.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I’d also add: If Steiny comes back healthy and we draft a top 2 RG, with Pinkston, Greco and Pashos competing for the RT, McCoy or any other QB we may play, will have absolutely no excuses. Good or bad QB play will be obvious.
We could have had any combination of those 3 last year. What makes you think Pinkston can play RT or that Greco, who couldn’t beat out Oneil Cousins or Artis Hicks could start?
By the way, I think Hicks had a pretty good game to end the season.
Pinkston excelled at LT for Pitt. Had a pretty decent year, filling some pretty big shoes at LG. Leads me to believe that he has the versatility to play RT. Im suggesting draft a ‘natural’ interior lineman to replace an unimpressive Lavaou at RG. Keep Pinkston at LG if Steiny has complications. As far as Cousins and Hicks: Experience and depth are very good things. With the injury record in Cleveland, the Browns need 7 starting caliber o-lineman.
I do think DeCastro has the potential to be as good, if not better than Iupati as a prospect, but I still think we should address other things.
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Iupati is the better prospect 10 out of 10 times.
Dude was a monster.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 25, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think DeCastro’s technique is superior, but they are both great prospects. DeCastro certainly isn’t the mauler of Iupati.
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A team can teach technique, they can’t teach you to be a monster.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I see one tackle, a center, and three guards.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 25, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
agree. i wouldnt shop RG3 if he lands to us, but in this example id rather take the WR #16 here and DE Mercilus at #22. OL can be taken deeper or FA
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday, for an MDP today.
IMO, OG is the most underestimated position in football. I also believe this, is slowly being realized in the NFL and thier stock is trending upwards. Cordy Glenn has a 40 time of 5.28. That is blazing speed(athleticism) at 6’6" 345+lbs.
It may be underestimated but there are a lot more guys who can play it than can play OT so supply and demand.
I agree. But demand for OT is low. IMO, we’re solid on the exterior with JThomas(Pinkston as a back up) on the left and Pashos/Pinkston competing for RT. With a healthy Steiny, RG is our weakest slot. Decastro is the best ‘natural’ interior lineman in the draft. Cordy Glenn has the combination of size and speed to play any OL position.
Your assumption that Jones would deal is just that, a BIG assumption. Plus, Minnifield and Brown will be drafted before #37 and #47. Personally, I would love to have both of those players. If Jeff would drop to 2nd round, I’d love to grab him, as well. I do, however, like the idea of a guard early on in the draft, something inside tells me we need a G or T, but I believe first round is not necessary for either this year.
I can see Brown slipping to the second round.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 25, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to see us trade down, add another 2nd round pick this year and possibly a first rd pick for next year, then pick up Brown and Minnifield, then Jeffery.
I would be very happy with that trade down. Compared to last year the top of the first round is pretty weak. There’s better value to be found in the mid-first downwards to the bottom of the third. Also, if we can get another first for 2013, we will have a shot at a good QB prospect. There will be 3, maybe 4 to look at.
by JohnW81 on Jan 25, 2012 3:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I have a ton of problems with this scenario. 1- G is not our most pressing need on offense by a long shot. JT-Pinky-Mack will stay like that for next year, Steinbach, if healthy (BIG IF), would be either back-up or RG. I agree with your overall assessment that Lauvao is weak, but he is more serviceable and easier to replace then any WR we have. Also, I doubt you read much into what Heckert actually you know… says… but Pinky will not be playing RT for the browns. He was drafted to be a G because they thought he was too slow to be a T in the NFL. Again, Pinkston is a G. So is Greco. Greco was brought here as a back-up G/C. I think he could even play RG for Lauvao. When Shawn went down in one game Greco stepped in and IMO it was the best I saw the OL play all year. But in no way will Greco be competing for RT. I know as part of the trade if Greco played x amount of snaps or started then the browns had to give up a pick/higher pick. I think by not using him he was free (correct me if Im wrong).
So moving past the G issue, I think you underestimate player’s draft value, You clearly dont know that TJ played SS this year (when healthy), We are not cutting Fujita no matter who you bring in, and Weeden is not a developmental QB. He is 29… Id rather take a shot with someone who has a chance to get a career.
And thats all not mentioning that you fail to fix RT in the draft and the whole trade scenario would never happen, because GMs/owners dont trade away 2 1st round picks on a guy they hope would be good if their starter goes down.
RT didnt make “my” top 10 because I feel comfortable with Pashos, Pinkston and Cousins competing for playing time. I’m trying to replace our weakest OL with yet another pro-bowl potential ’natural interior talent. In my scenario, “guys that score tds” is still a priority.
Pinkston is a guard. The front office has been very clear about that. Cousins is awful. Pashos can’t stay healthy.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 25, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Cousins, if he remains on the roster after pre season, will be a G as well. I believe thats what Baltimore had said, and i think Heckert echoed it (though I could be wrong about that). But with Pinky, Steinbach, Lauvao, and Greco I dont see Cousins surviving camp.
I hope Cousins doesn’t survive camp.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 26, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I hope Cousins is not in camp. I feel horrible saying that since he’s a real person, but he’s not a good OT.
Like i said… as a guard…
Why not bring in a guy who started once upon a time? Still young, and maybe just couldnt handle the lockout and got a little out of shape (for his position). No harm in letting him try-out. Contracts arent guaranteed in the NFL.
I don’t have a serious problem with the picks, I just don’t think its very realistic, especially the trade down. I don’t think we need to address G, but I wouldn’t be upset with DeCastro. I am high on him, especially if we can get a lot in the trade with Dallas like you postulated (like a 2013 1st).
I also think we would have to use the 4th pick you use for Weeden to get Trethevan. He is really good and I do really like him.
Also, for the 22 and 37, Jeffery likely won’t draft to the 2nd and Ingram is a 4-3 DE. I like Both, but we probably can’t get both, but I would be fine with Ingram and Sanu with those picks, which is more feasible.
You are getting a lot of flack for picking DeCastro but I don’t have a serious problem with it. I think even at 14 its a reach for him and he isn’t our biggest need, but I would actually like it if we could trade down a few spots (like to 18) and we can still grab him most likely. As of this point, I am “meh” on that pick.
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If J.Blackmon falls to #4 he’s not for sale.
RG3 is for sale.
If Blackmon is gone and there is no value in a trade-down, then I’d have to take Morris Claiborne. Must get a top 6 talent at #4. He would contribute to an already-improved defense from day one.
If J.Blackmon falls to #4 he’s not for sale.
RG3 is for sale.
Is this your opinion or do you think this is what our front office thinks?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 25, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
If we passed RG3 for Blackmon, I would be pissed. That’s coming from a HUGE Blackmon fan.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 25, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
What do you mean no hype with Blackmon? There’s tons of hype, there always is with anyone who’s going to be a top five pick.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 26, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. There’s hype with the top picks. But the hype over RG3 is overshadowing all the other would-be-hyped players.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
It is with Browns fans because we have no QB. If we had one we would be talking about someone else. Also we wouldn’t be drafting 4th.
by HenryDawg on Jan 29, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But the hype over RG3 is overshadowing all the other would-be-hyped players.
Only for fans of teams without quarterbacks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 29, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Many people are saying he’s over rated. I’m not one of them but still many are.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Jan 27, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Overall I think your draft is pretty decent……I wouldn’t have started with Guard or Jerry Jones though. You have to appease the masses and start with QB or WR. I have actually kind of quit the draft speculation. Doesn’t seem that fun when a few hundred people all have a specific idea of how this team should be run and they’re all right.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 3:54 PM EST reply actions
I like the trade down option 2nd to Blackmon. But still want a top 15 talent (ahead of Cincy at 17). I came up with Jerry Jones as my ideal candidate to trade with because he’s in the correct pick range, has a history of dealing with the Browns and thought it’d be nice to get a little payback for once (because I’m not an RG3 believer).
Sorry, but we don’t need top 15 talent. We need top 5 talent. Cincy took their top 5 talent and went to the playoffs. By the way, didn’t they pick before us? Didn’t they have a rookie QB with no real training camp and we had a second year QB at the helm. When you’re losing, you have to draft stars, not fillers.
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. We need a top 5 at #4. But, in this hypothesis, our first pick is at #14. There we need a top 15. Cincy was/is better overall than the Browns. The Bengals aren’t in rebuild mode either. I’d also point out: They took thier star WR before thier QB.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why your buddies would take a Guard in the first round, when you have a QB and a #1 WR you can do that.
Exactly. Except I, unlike you, still have faith (although, it is being tested) in McCoys potential and I want the #1 WR in upcoming draft, most of all. I only want the Guard in a trade down situation if the best WR in the draft is off the board at 4.
Trading up 2 spots for RG3, out of fear that another team will make the trade if we don’t, makes no sense to me. The only way I would trade up to #2 would be for Blackmon, because IMO, the Rams want him as well. The rams would still get Blackmon at #4. Therefore, the Rams need more from another team further back because they’ll have to give up thier preferred player.
IMO, the best thing that can happen is another team trades up to #2 for RG3 thereby, increasing the odds that Blackmon will fall to us at #4.
I have one question that I would ask you:
Please explain to me what Colt McCoy has done to deserve more chances? Don’t use his offensive line or Wide Receivers as excuses.
What have you seen from McCoy?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
How about Effort for one. This was his first full season with the first team, with a new offensive scheme, new coach. So it pretty much is a rookie season. Our record showed us that we are pretty much where we were picked to end up at. Though i will say, that our defense was the best suprise to be had all season long.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Effort? You know what you get for effort? A ribbon. Not another shot at a NFL job.
That answer alone should make the Colt backers understand a change needs to happen.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yea, okay. I can’t wait to see you out there playing.
He’s good enough to play and with some decent talent to play with, our record would have been much better and this conversation wouldn’t be taking place. face it, our team has a huge talent hole still, though its not as bad as it used to be. Hopefully, the FO will continue our steady climb of talent and not reach for what isnt there.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Please explain to me what Colt McCoy has done to deserve more chances? Don’t use his offensive line or Wide Receivers as excuses.
That’s all I’m asking. You are falling back on the “surrounding talent” excuse.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 31, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
You are falling back on the "surrounding talent" excuse
I don’t believe its an excuse, I believe it is a fact. This team has a huge talent hole in it still. Please explain to me in very basic english, how this team doesn’t have the gigantic talent hole. Yes, we have added some really good players over the last two years, though we are far from being done of just adding starters, thats without any real depth. This rebuild wasn’t and isn’t a two season thing here, it is a 4 season thing. Changing the environment to a winning way takes time, obviously as fans we hate waiting – I really hate it.
I would love to see the magical draft, where we get all kinds of players and picks in the top 75 picks. The following is my latest 4 round dream draft. Have fun ripping it up
Cleveland trades with Washington @#4 and the Redskins take RGIII, (receiving 2012’s 1st, 2nd,& 3rd & 2013 1st & 3rd) then @ #6 Cleveland trades with Jacksonville at #7(receiving there 2012 1st, 2nd & 4th picks with a 2013 3rd, With the Jags taking Martin or Reiff. I took Decastro here, replacing Steinny, just in case he comes back not able to resume where he left off.
1. @ #7, Cleveland Selects D. DeCastro – OG. @#22 A. Jeffery – WR
2. @ #36 – C. Minnefield – CB, @#38 D. Jones – WR, @ #39 R. Lewis – DE
3. @ #68 – T. Carder – LB, @ 70 – L. James – RB
4. @100 – F Alexander – DE & @ #117 – C. Messina – LB
Thats the first 4 rounds. Not Sexy either but extremely solid, Addressing all true needs, OL, WR, LB, RB, DE, CB. The 5-7th rounds, another RB, OL, WR, LB, Or DE
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Please explain to me in very basic english, how this team doesn’t have the gigantic talent hole.
I never said we didn’t.
What I did say is that this excuse gets trotted out for Colt ad nauseum. Colt has done nothing to elevate the guys around him no matter the talent level. If you are a good QB, you should be able to make plays at some point.
I have yet to hear one good reason to keep Colt, other than blaming everyone else on the roster. Sometimes, you have to point the finger at the triggerman.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 31, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bernie’s neighbor better go in to witness protection/relocation if we draft a G 7th overall.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 31, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
New coach. New system. Inexperienced interior of the O line . No #1, in an otherwise decent, WR corp. First full training camp for young QB with 1st unit. Lack of a running game. What a lot are interpreting as excuses, others see as collective reasons to expect nothing more than a unproductive offensive unit. With the loss of Steiny in the preseason, my expectations for McCoy were erased the moment the Hillis saga began.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Int OLine + LG+C +RG, I’m fine with inexperienced Gs,but our C is top notch imo. Despite what Rocland says.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 4:29 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, wholeheartedly. I believe H&H have the sights set higher than ‘making the playoffs’. IMO, the worst thing that can happen is Holmgren splits as soon as we make a playoff. Odds are, the Browns will need multiple playoff berths before they can make a legit run at a Super Bowl. Build a division champion caliber team first. Putting more eggs in fewer baskets is the recipe for mediocrity. I’m with you and IMO, we’re with H&H. Steady as she goes.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll give him an A for effort. I’ll also give mike Adams an A for effort because he always tries. Doesn’t mean we can’t use an upgrade. Effort isn’t progress. Effort helps players suck a little less and makes fans like the player enough to want to avoid replacing them when it’s rational (which has been argued for Adams too)
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I don’t think you’re giving the fans enough credit. From where I sit, Browns fans tend to show overwhelming support for the most talented guys on the team. Lately, the fans in Cleveland are making sure thier voices are being heard because, recent history shows us that the talented players are the first ones to be let go. 2 savage and 1 Crennel guy still on this team? I’d have to seriously consider becoming a Bengals fan if H&H let either of JT, a healthy Steiny or ‘my comeback player of the year’ DQ go.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck Cinci
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 4:30 AM EST up reply actions
Jovial and welcoming.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Feb 8, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
recent history shows us that the talented players are the first ones to be let go.
who’s history is that?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
The Browns’ history. They’re best FA’s tended to leave when they got a chance (at least the ones I’d have tried harder to keep). Hoping, Holmgren changes this for us.
"...and Dawggone it, people like me".
Can you list me some names?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Lawrence M’F’n Vickers.
This was year one of the Vickers Curse. We will never win again until we apologize as a fan base for turning our back on the greatest FB in the history of mankind.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 9, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, sure a good deal of fans like talented players. However, J.W. showed above that some Browns fans like Colt based on the fact that he is a “gamer” and gives a ton of effort, no matter how good he is.
Josh Cribbs is the same way and is a fan favorite. I don’t know how many times I have read people here or heard someone on the radio talk about how Cribbs is our best WR.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
http://www.prosportsblogging.com/author/bross09/
Like DBN on Facebook
As a fan of the game, I need to see more of McCoy before demoting or cutting him. I don’t know that he’ll be decidedly good by week 8. But we should know if he’s NOT ‘starting caliber’.
As for Cribbs, sadly, I agree with the media. He has been our best WR (most dependable, to say the least). However, my expectations for Little are greater than for Cribbs. Josh’s real value is on ST’s. I would however, go with someone else at punt returning, to free Cribbs up to play a ‘decent amount’ of offense (hopefully as our 3-4th best WR). We need as many play-making threats on the field, at the same time, as possible.
"...and Dawggone it, people like me".
I have not fully given up on Colt, but if by week 8 he shows little, he just has little to show. Part of why I want RG3 so we can plug him in by week 9.
Cribbs might be our most dependable WR, but he is very limited in his capabilities overall. He can’t do as many things as Little. I like Cribbs, but the point was more that he has always gotten overrated in what he can do imo b/c he is a fan favorite.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
http://www.prosportsblogging.com/author/bross09/
Like DBN on Facebook
What I seen was 12 losses this season where, from bad play from others (2 on Pontriband, alone) and bad play calling from the sidelines being more responsible than McCoys lackluster play.
Ah! Another scapegoat! The playcalling!
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on your faith in H&H and McCoy. Those that have none, see them as excuses. Those that are still living in Believeland, see them for what they are.
The COLD HARD FACTS.
There is No Denying:
that, with great frequeny, the play calling was horrendous;
that, there was a lack of experience at both Guards (an above avg. Rookie and a below avg. 1st year starter);
that, there was no sign of a running game for the majority of the season. (IMO, due to politics, injuries then more politics).
that, the Browns are without a double-team-drawing #1 WR.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
that, with great frequeny, the play calling was horrendous
I actually liked the play calling, the execution however…
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
Except neither of those plays were Pont’s fault. I think one was on Sorensen, and the other was Alex Mack’s right foot getting in the way.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 29, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I think they were in the end, in Mack’s foot, he double clutched it when he should have snapped it. Mack would not have been in the way. I guess he had a lot of other high snaps that were getting hard for the punter to handle. He started to try an overcompensate for the high ones and started rolling them into the dirt. Sucks but he was losing it. I feel terrible for him, but he had a good career.
Poor Coly, he tries so hard despite all the lazy, talentless, good for nothings he has to work with.
At least one of those was a 50 yard field goal. Those aren’t gimmies.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 30, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
They took thier star WR before thier QB.
Because the only guy with obvious star potential was already gone. Last year’s QB class outside of one guy was considered pretty poor. Griffin is rated higher than every QB after #1 was last season.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 29, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I would even make the argument that RG3 is rated higher than Newton was last season.
Most people, myself included, thought he was going to be a massive bust (that book is far from written, but he looks legit).
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 29, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Cincy took thier WR first, because he (AJ) also had obvious star power. Same as Blackmon. TD producing machines, they are.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I would not be in the least bit upset if HH&S went with Blackmon at #4.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 4:49 AM EST up reply actions
Quit with the self pity. The fact is that you didn’t have any facts to back up your reasoning of using a first round pick on a MLB, other than “our run defense stunk!”. Everyone around here is wrong at some point in time. Take your medicine and move on.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
LOL….I don’t pity myself.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
We are I think…lol.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think what I said has some air of truth to it? I pity that.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
We do if he leaves. Not so far as much as "Can we upgrade about fifteen other positions first?’ Yeah…And I admit, i’m in love with the kids tackling but i’m sticking with my sig…..we’ll be kicking ourselves if he plays against us for the next 8-10 years in the AFC North. MY opinion.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know why you believe he would be leaving. He is either re-signing or will be tagged.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Asking or telling?
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what DQ himself said.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
He rarely misses a tackle. What does no L mean? Seriously, i’m not sure.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
There is no “L” in his name.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
OMG I have been operating on an incorrect assumption. I’ll leave it though.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
That’s all? D’Qwell doesn’t miss many tackles either. And he doesn’t have such an attitude problem that his coach sits him out for large stretches of the game either.
Yeah…that’s all other than the 150 yds a game we give up.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I made a promise to keep my sig…..for 2 years….I can’t help that. At this point I wish my sig was who the hell is C.b.l.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Do not attack other posters.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, if you think that’s an attack, I digress. I was wondering from more of a curiosity standpoint.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Just a guy.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Okay. I just feel that if you don’t know the guy’s name and you honestly think he’s a good player after this past season then you haven’t watched him much and have decided he’s a good fit for us because he’s mean and has a fiery attitude.
I watched him all season long and there was a joke with a typo……tell me about C.b.l. now
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Canadian Basketball league? Can’t buy liniment? Crying but legit?…….Just want to know what your name means.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
cavs browns indians. My name is usually cbi on forums and stuff, but some douche on the giants blog already had that name.
Ok….Just wondered.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry if you think I went after you here….it’s not usually like me. I’ve been all over the Burfict thing before. I will admit I may have gotten a little chafed about it. Totally apologize.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Well we did…..
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
So now D’Qwell Jackson is solely responsible for the yards the entire defense allows on the ground?
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
No…..I’m just not sold on him being our defensive leader.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, my friend. I can’t back you on this one. DQ52 is a beast! It’s nice on the rare occasion to hear a beast say they “want to be in Cleveland”.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Aren’t you a Colt supporter?
If so, your logic is that Colt is not the problem, it’s his support. However, on defense, it is most definitely not the support’s fault, it’s DQ’s.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
What?…..I’m a Browns supporter. I think DQ could improve or be replaced yes. He’s had as much time on the field as McCoy if not a bit more.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, LB plays a much bigger factor in the run, Specifically Mike. We have a decent pass defense. I just want a guy in here who can grab the opponent by the ankles and not let go in run D.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
If wanting us to be better defensively is wrong….i’m guilty……
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
you just described DQ. who you didn’t describe are his counterparts at WLB and SLB
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Somewhere along the way, I want 3 new linebackers and a RDE.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
I would like any and all tackles at LOS.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 29, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
This, I can agree with. But IMO, it’s Fujita that needs to be replaced, not DQ52.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
But I did start with a WR. lol Blackmon is my preferred pick. Everything else was ‘if’ we can’t get him at #4.
Ok. See I immediately got stuck at the trade thing. Decent +.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
If we draft Blackmon, we better get Campbell to throw it to him. We can get him cheap in FA and he brings more tools to the table than Colt. Plus, he may be able to give us a 3rd or 4th pick, if we trade him.
by kamasutraman_007 on Jan 28, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I like your idea of getting Campbell better than my idea of drafting Weeden late, but to compete with McCoy, not trading McCoy.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
That is a better route to go with. Campbell is a known QB, and could compete well i believe. If they both stunk it up in 2012, then we would then look for the QB, that is as long as we actually added roll playing talent to this team with the 2012 draft & FA.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Sometimes I swear 3 people are the same person on here….commenting separately after one another.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 5:44 PM EST reply actions
It’s like high-school here. We’re segragating ourselves into smaller niches. Only difference is the “nerds” think they’re the “cool kids”. LOL jk
Yikes….nerds get the hottest chicks…..no name calling, you’ll get the banhammer.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no name calling, you’ll get the banhammer.
Everyone better remember this.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
nerds are the cool kids, I don’t know what you are talking about…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Yup, the nerd revolution became realized when the internet and video games became mega-popular.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 29, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll pass on the would-be friendly banter from fear of the “banhammer”. lol
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
When I read this, the first three people I thought of were you, DawgsNHawgs, and J.W.
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
by Adrock2099 on Jan 28, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’ve seen the crap I say…..I couldn’t get 5 people within a hundred yards of here to agree regularly….I will see you at Tuesday dinner though?
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Jan 28, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not a regular here. So, I doubt that we’re the first. LOL
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
You couldn’t possibly be suggesting that I’m posting under more than one identity. Are you? First of all, I don’t have the mental capacity necessary to pull off such a stunt for an extended period of time. lol Secondly, why? What is there to gain by agreeing with myself in an online community?
Out of curiosity, who else do you have me mistaken for. Wait, if you’re going to insult me, I’d rather not know.
I agree with all of this, I was just joking with you, relax.
Now that Heckert/Mooncamping/Champ64 triangle, that’s real.
Heckert is Mooncamping? That’s funny. Absurd but funny. lol
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 29, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
We came to this conclusion a looooong time ago.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 30, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Hello DawgsNHawgs, I must be a long lost twin or something to that effect. I will agree with you on the Browns, they are my favorite team of any sports for the last 40 years. I’ve enjoyed watching the Indians do well (it’s not often), and I really enjoyed the 2001 season. When they came back from what a 13-1(something like that) against the Mariners, which pissed the old lady off (she’s from Seattle). I’ve been a fan of the Rangers for about 30 years, so that makes me a habitual underdog fan.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Oh, I’ve lived all over the US, being military for almost my whole life. I call Las Vegas home now.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
Wow. That is interesting. I was born in Ohio. Though I never served, I put in 13 years as a Navy Brat. Did time in all 3 corners of FLA. With brief stays in Cali and Newport Beach, Va. Been living halfway between Browns town (keepin’ it football related so we don’t get flagged. LOL) and Columbus for the last 30 years. Had the misfortune of moving north just in time for a High School. The most emotional time in a young persons life.
I travel a lot for work also and it pains me to say this but, even after living here 30 years, Northern Ohioans (and Pennsylvanians) are still the most difficult people to get along with. I can go to Michigan, decked out in Scarlet and Gray, and get treated better than I can in my home state.
I picked up a laid back southern attitude as a child and an arguementative Northern attitude as a teenager. Around here, I’m a one-of-a-kind. LOL Here, outsiders soon become outcasts. Believe it or not, I’ve been told, by complete strangers, on more ocassion, that I smile to much. I never knew that was possible. Only in Ohio. I blame it on the Lake Effect. LOL
My best memories since moving to Ohio are days at the stadium. Around here, peoples moods are better on gameday and all you have to do is wear the home colors to blend in. lol
Tried to leave once. Moved to Tucson in ’99. Played all the golf I could for 2 years before finding my way back. As the Old saying goes: “Home is where the Heart is”. LOL
Come to think of it, I have a cousin that lives in Vegas. But, his initials are KC. lol
Me, I’ve been following College and NFL football for 30 seasons. The first 20 years as a Raiders fan, the last 20 as a Browns fan. Was a fan of Alabama growing up in Pensacola. Been a Buckeye since my freshman year at OSU. All Browns for the last 10 years Also being a fan of the underdawg, the Browns grew to become my favorite in thier absence.
I think its our experience that seperates us from the-dudes-with-tudes.
We’re the old Dawgs and the younger Dawgs think they must ‘know better’ cuz this is “the NEW NFL” and "you can’t teach an old dawg new tricks. The game is still the same. The formula to winning consistently its still the same. Only the talent has improved.
by DawgsNHawgs on Jan 31, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Serious question: Do you think I’m one of the new or old Dawgs. Won’t hold your answer against you either way.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 4:57 AM EST up reply actions
A dawg with “relish”
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 1, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Im going out a bit here but I think I recall u r an older dawg like me.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 1, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on your definition. I’m 25 so I’m kind of one of the old dawgs in that I was a fan before he who shall not be named ripped out all of our hearts and shit on them. But I’m still a younger fan.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I turned 42 on the 13th.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 1, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
It’s cool though…my wife is a young 34…..keeps me young as well.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 1, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Not an edge, maybe somewhere to park my frustrations….she’s good at being what I need.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 1, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
You and DNH are perfect for each other.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 1, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve seen your friendship build over the last week. It’s cute.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 1, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
U jelly? LOL
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 2, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
You read too much into things. :-)
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 2, 2012 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
Trouble in paradise?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 2, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Could be. I think being accused of being “friendly” towards me, may have been to much for him to take. lol
I’ve actually grown fonder of NCF and BY but you’ll get there.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 3, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t write anyone off. We all have good and bad opinions as it relates to everyone else. I won’t get caught up in factions though. One time on here I was asked “are you with us or against us?” I think it was a serious question to which I explained “no, I form my own opinions.” After some needling, I jokingly said “ok, i’m in.” What is my point? I have the capacity to like everyone here. Those who reach out a bit, even more, unless it’s misguided like my example. In summary….I wouldn’t write you off. Friend.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 3, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks man.
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 1, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I may be younger, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t want you to get off my damn lawn!
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 1, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
lol
We'll be kicking ourselves if we don't get Burflict.
by The New Kardiac Kids on Feb 2, 2012 4:25 AM EST up reply actions
Once you here for a while you’ll start remembering how old people are. But sometimes the older guys act like they’re 15, so it can be hard to tell.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 1, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thats funny. I guess that means there is actually some real people here, instead of the sheeple that follow the few who think they are the shepards.
"Excuse me while I ride my unicorn over to the gentleman’s club my wife doesn’t mind me visiting and doing coke off a hooker’s ass." - Henry Dawg , DBN - Dec 2011
by J. W. on Jan 31, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather things go differently, but eh. Whatevs.
Just a note though, unless I’m mistaken, Boss Ward is already a SS. So we wouldn’t have to move him :) Also, I think we do need a legit FS, but I also want to give some props to Mike Adams. He made some plays this year- I think he was one of… Well, I think he may have been the only one on our D to get an INT. And I think he got at least 2, at that.
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