Why not Flynn?
Something I’ve heard far too little about is going after a QB is free agency. Here is my thinking for why we should go after one, well basically go after Flynn:
I don’t think we’re focusing enough on what NEEDS to be done in Free Agency to reach the magic $142.5 million dollar mark for this year’s salary cap. Well, more like $120.375 in salary and the other $22 odd million going to benefits, but you get the idea.
The league as a whole needs to use 95% of that figure this year, some $3.1 billion By next year the spending will be mandatory for each individual team, so there’s no real reason why Lerner cheap butt shouldn’t pull out his wallet this year and have H/H land us something in 2012 FA. He will have a difficult time spending the money next year if he doesn’t start this year.
Bottom line, quick and dirty: We will let Adams ($1.6 m.) Dawson (3.25 m.), A. Smith (640k) all go. The #4 pick will sign for around $5 m. and the #22 will go for about $2 m. This will leave us (assuming a D. Jackson resign and even a generous P. Hillis resign) at least $ 25 m. in cap room to play with…
The team is poised to have a breakout season if we could just pull together some important offensive pieces to the puzzle. (Let's ignore the Defensive needs for the moment for the sake of argument) The glaring deficiencies are QB, WR, and RT. (Colt apologetics hold off for a minute.) Looking at the NFL as a whole, this has become a QB driven league. The elite teams have elite QBs, end of discussion. H/H are not idiots, they know this fact, and they know that we need to do whatever we can do to find one.
Why go for a QB in FA?
Reason 1: H/H have a clear philosophy of building through the draft, we all get that. And for that reason I’m confident they will try to fill our offensive voids of WR and RT through this year’s draft. At both of these positions rookie players can have an immediate impact, which is a blatant necessity for whatever players we pick up in at least the first 2 rounds this April. QB’s have a much steeper learning curve and cannot make an immediate (and winning, Cam’s team was still 6-10) impact in this league. This is a simple fact.
Reason 2: H/H have never drafted or even groomed and elite QB. Favre and Hasselbeck were both FA or trade pick ups. McNabb was already on the roster when Heckert arrived. Holgrem has made comments time and again alluding to the fact that they are looking for this elusive franchise QB. He knows the immediate impact it would have on this tea. He knows the pressure it would take off our already good D in becoming another great AFC North D.
Reason 3: I’d rather take a QB with NFL experience and grooming then take a flyer on a QB that may or may not be elite and may or may not even fit a WCO system (RGIII). Nowhere else in this draft or the next are any prospects as promising… This is reason enough to at least consider a FA QB.
All this being said, there is only one real prospect for us this year. Well and one fantasy prospect. Here are the two options I see and the cases for them:
FA QB #1: Matt Flynn:
1. I can’t stress how important this is to H/H. Flynn already knows the West Coast offense, he know the lingo, he has been groomed in essentially the same system Shurmer is attempting to run; the learning curve will be minimal .
2. GB can’t afford to franchise tag him at the QB position ($18 mill., no way!) He will be an unrestricted FA
3. He has all the athletic tools to succeed in the WCO, athleticism, speed, good decision-making, exceptional grooming
4. He is an immediate upgrade over Colt, even if he is the next Matt Schaub (backup groomed into average/above average starter); we can win with that
5. There is no realistic FA QB’s on the horizon in 2013 if Colt is still a bust next year. (Flacco and Schaub are UFA next year, but they’ll likely get extensions this season).
6. He won’t come cheap, but won’t come that expensive either… think $10 m. range. We can certainly make him a great offer.
FA QB #2: Peyton Manning: (of course pending his return)
Qualifier: Let's be honest he'll never come to Cleveland at this point in his career to try and rebuild a franchise... but wouldn't it be cool... at least there's some factors going in our favor:
1. I don’t care what you say…on March 8, he is due a $28 m. signing bonus. New coach, new GM, new QB (Luck), have you heard Peyton’s comments this week?… all signs point to an exit. The new leadership can’t rebuild with both Manning and Luck on the roster, that is $50 m. in cap space tied up in one position, this is a business folks… and that’s bad business keeping on the roster in a rebuild
2. Peyton knows the WCO inside and out
3.We are supposedly getting an OC, but what if we don’t?… and Peyton fills this role on the field… him and Shurmer essentially splitting play calling duties… or even brining in the Colts OC who got just fired (Tom Moore) to help install that clearly effective system
4. Heck, we can afford whatever price he asks
5. With our D and Peyton at the helm (pick up a RT and WR or two)… we have an elite team that can compete with anyone…
6. Having Peyton for 3 years would be a Godsend, but also a stop-gap, during this period we now have additional time to groom a QB of the future, whomever that may be
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This is pretty well reasoned apart from the Lerner being cheap point, he’s not. I think Shurmur seemed like he did a good job bringing along Bradford in STL, and I’m more excited about RG3 than Flynn just because he’ll be half the investment but at least as much upside as Flynn if not more. Plus Flynn is still a mystery, he started 2 games and throwing up huge numbers against the Lions isn’t impressive. Brady Quinn did the same thing, and their DBs were just as bad then as they are now.
we’ll have to disagree on the up side of Flynn. Flynn has hype for a reason, not just his appearances in pre-season games and a game verse the Lions. He fits our system and he has been trained by the best QB/OC tandem in the league.
As far as RGIII is concerned, I have no idea how he isn’t a bigger mystery than Flynn. No experience in our offense (much less an under center offense), played Big 12 defenses , a far steeper learning curve for rookies… if we want to win now, Flynn is our best chance
I don’t have a problem with Holmkert giving Flynn a look, or even signing him if they believe the price is right. I think most people here don’t get too excited about him lately becuase has such a small sample size of time on which to develop an opinion. Let’s also not discount the fact that he torched the Lions with a very strong supporting cast.
IMO, the FO has built up enough trust of player evaluation (from a prospect/draft level, and from previous QB acquisitions) that I will trust what they do. I dont see “it” in Matt Flynn. Completely in the realm of possibilities that I am wrong. But I tend to think RG3 has a much greater potential, and overall tools as a QB. We’ll see in the a few months who H&H believe is the right guy… (maybe they dont get a QB?!)
Did the Colts run west coast offense with Manning? I didn’t think they did
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Jan 26, 2012 4:53 PM EST via Android app reply actions
If Flynn turned out to be as good as Matt Schaub, then it’s a fantastic signing. I’m skeptical of Flynn, but then again, I’m skeptical of every unproven QB. Ultimately, I feel like a lot of this QB speculation will come down to trusting H&H’s scouting. If the price is good and they think he’s our future, how can I say no to that?
If Griffin is taken early and we grab Blackmon, I would welcome the idea of Flynn with open arms.
Manning is a top-tier QB rehabbing multiple neck surgeries. Our last year’s QB ran for his life all season and was badly concussed. I dont see any amount of $$ bringing him here.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday, for an MDP today.
Our last year’s QB ran for his life all season
Which was his fault.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 27, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Your prejudice is never ending. Yes, some of it was him getting happy feet in the pocket, but how about you sit in the pocket, not have receivers getting open or running the right routes and see if YOU stay in the pocket. Such judgmental and skewed opinion. PFFFT
such judgemental and skewed? How many times did Colt get it out within 2 seconds?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Holding on to the ball too long/never throwing the ball away is on Colt. It’s not like he was running for his life because of poor protection. Him not wanting to throw the ball can kind of be compared to the people around here who seem afraid to draft a QB because we don’t have a "perfect’ situation. If you’re afraid to throw the ball you aren’t going to score, and if you are afraid to pull the trigger on a QB, you’ll never get a good one, barring any absurd exceptions like a 6th round pick becoming a franchise QB. Just make sure you don’t hold your breath waiting for it to happen. (By the way, you sound like a Colt apologist when you talk like that)
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Rarely did McCoy get the ball out on time.
If your offensive line is expecting a quick pass, they block differently.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
How about this. Lets say Manning doesn’t come back. Flynn goes to Miami with the oc. that would leave the seahawks possibly and redskins looking for rg3. now lets say we cut a deal with the redskins. their 6th pick and (at the very min) 1st next year. They nab rg3 at 4. we fill the rest of our needs (wr, rt, de, cb, rb etc.) Now, aside from luck, and rg3 (who needs work) the qb’s this year are pretty weak. So, im going to catch shit for this, but lets say we bring in Matt Hasselbeck to compete this year. Its similar to the idea with jake d, but he knows the wco inside and out and he will bring in some competition. now, if mccoy doesnt pan out, we have matt for a stop-gap. I believe he can get us through next year with a better result than this year. then next year, we once again have 2 #1’s with most of our needs filled so we can pursue a true franchise qb in the form of barkley or jones. I know this will not be popular, but i think throwing in another qb before we address our needs at other positions and mature as a team will result in the same record as every other year. Below .500
If the plan is to pass on RG3 and go after 2013 best QB, i’d rather just have Colt under center all year. why throw $$ at an experienced backup, when the master plan is to replace them both in 16 games anyway? rather have that $$ to buy cadillacs for Haden and Thomas.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday, for an MDP today.
We have had a few quarterbacks light it up for a game or two around here. That is why we are all leery of Flynn. If H&H see him as a viable option I am sure we would all be on board but there would be no celebration until we see how he pans out. I think we would all be thrilled because it would save our draft more then anything else.
As for Peyton, I would love to see him here as a qb coach or OC but I do not want to see him in a Browns uniform. Who wants to be the team that’s known for crippling one of the greatest qb’s in NFL history? I really believe that if he becomes a FA there would be little to no interest in him for this reason. He is high risk low reward at this point.
I would rather roll the dice with Colt for another season.
I don’t see why Flynn is considered a clear upgrade. I think he is more Scott Mitchell than Matt Schuab.
I agree.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
alirenee, I stopped reading your thread the moment you said to let Phil Dawson go. The only words I can think of to describe how much I highly disagree with you would surely get me flagged and banned from this forum.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 28, 2012 1:09 AM EST reply actions
You mean it only got worse? I stopped reading at:
Lerner cheap butt
Lerner may be a lot of things, but a miser is not one.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
And I couldn’t care less if he walked.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
We all know you have a bias against kickers and punters. I would definitely care if our #2 all-time scorer didn’t retire as a Brown. And as for the 3rd highest paid comment above: There’s a reason Heckert applied the franchise tag last year making him as such. It’s also not like he’s a 36 year old running back. Hell, Matt Stover was practically ready to use a walker by the time he retired.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t get me wrong, I like Phil.
But the amount of heartache that is attached to turnover at pointless positions (FB, K, P, LS) baffles me at times.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 28, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Kicker isn’t nearly as pointless as you’re making it out to be.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 28, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Nor is Punter.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 28, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Not by a long shot. Baltimore missed out on a chance to go to the Super Bowl because of their kicker, and that was a guy we could have decided to keep in 2010 when Dawson got injured, but better judgement in the front office proved worth while as we still have one of the league’s most accurate kickers on our team.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 2, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
That’s only because he’s our only year-in, year-out consistently productive player aside from our Lord Joe Thomas. It sickens me you, alirenee, and B19K think this way. You three seem to have no respect for what he means to Cleveland Brown history. I bet none of you know of Lou “The Toe” Groza either.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 2, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Lou Groza was a 6 time All-NFL tackle.
To compare him to Dawson is an insult to Groza.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 5, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t understand this “repsect for Cleveland Browns history” crap. I understand the history and for some reason eveyone that says this goes back to Jim Brown and Lou Groza. There is plenty of history between then and now. Stop living in the past. Respect the Past, yes. Live the past, no.
Stop falling in love with players and start falling in love with winning!
by SBP on Feb 6, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
totally agree… we there’s always FA kickers floating around, or why not take the best college kicker really late in the draft? we could definitely use the $3 million cap room phil takes up
Why do we “definitely” need $3 mil when we know from the new CBA we’re obligated to spend a lot more than we ever have in the past and it’s being spent on one of our most valuable players? Money isn’t an issue with this team and hasn’t really been an issue since the Butch Davis years if I’m not mistaken.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 2, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
why on earth would we spend more on a position than we need to? we can get a really good young player at a position of need for what we would save by letting Phil walk… he’s a KICKER… ya he’s been great, but keeping a top 3 paid kicker is a luxury that we don’t deserve with a team with this many needs
you guys are really focused on that one short lerner comment, it was more of an exasperated expression on how we failed to do much in FA the last couple of years and now have a ridiculous amount of cap room … yes, yes i know it was H/H’s decisions on who to get an pay not lerner … i’ll be more careful next time i write

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