A Quick Look Back at the Browns' Releases Last Year
by Chris Pokorny on Feb 10, 2012 11:00 PM EST
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PrintWe're in the midst of a period in the NFL where the free agent class starts to expand as teams begin releasing a couple of players to clear some cap space. Sure, every team isn't going to release a Stanford Routt just one year into a massive contract, but usually there are a few notable names to go around.
To this point in 2012, the Cleveland Browns have not released any players. One year ago, they did release several veteran players all in one felt swoop: DL Shaun Rogers, DL Kenyon Coleman, TE Robert Royal, LB David Bowens, LB Eric Barton, and OL John St. Clair. Just how important was that group of players? Well, let's just say that the last four players on that list weren't even in football this past season, as far as I can tell.
The moves also symbolized an end to the Eric Mangini era; many of the players on the list above were "his guys." It also hinted that the Browns would be operating in a 4-3 defense instead of the 3-4 defense. The release of Rogers was kind of surprising, because it basically left the Browns with Ahtyba Rubin as their only starting lineman. Rogers' potential spot was replaced with youth in Phil Taylor, the team's first-round draft choice last April.
Rogers quickly found a new team in the New Orleans Saints. He didn't make a splash the first half of the season, but reports indicate that he found his niche as a run stopper toward the end of the year. He is a free agent heading into the offseason, but at least he got to experience a playoff season after so many years of losing with Detroit and Cleveland. The other player who had a decent impact this past season was Coleman. His production took a hit from when he was with Cleveland, but he remained a significant part of Rob Ryan's rotation in Dallas.
Are there any players you think the Browns will outright release in the next couple of days?
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Brad Maynard, Jayme Mitchell, Mohamed Massaquoi, Oniel Cousins.
Hodges is better than Maynard. Mitchell will be replaced with a draft pick, ditto Massaquoi and Cousins.
by crazyL80 on Feb 11, 2012 1:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m not a Mitchell fan by any stretch, but if we don’t keep him we’ll have no depth at the position barring a FA/draft run on DEs. I’m on board with the rest though.
by Vududawg on Feb 11, 2012 3:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed. I’d even include Auston English in there.
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No way we release Mitchell. The guy is arguably better than Ndamukong Suh. Only moon camping would suggest we let go of that kind of beastly talent.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 11, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think Carlton Mitchell goes before Massaquoi.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 11, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Is Massaquoi really that much better than Mitchell to be paid as much as he is comparatively? I would totally understand if Mitchell didn’t make the team come September but I don’t think there is any reason to cut him right now. We would probably cut guy from this past years practice squad if we need room to sign FA’s not guys who were on the 53 unless we want to save money or cut ties.
Is Massaquoi really that much better than Mitchell to be paid as much as he is comparatively?
Yes, definitely. First of all, I don’t know where people are getting the idea that Massaquoi’s contract matters. He’s not making a lot of money, and anyone we bring in to replace him will make just as much. Second, Carlton Mitchell has never done anything in the NFL. The guy has only made it on the field for 11 games in two seasons and only has three catches to show for it. Massaquoi has a 600 yard season under his belt.
We would probably cut guy from this past years practice squad if we need room to sign FA’s
This doesn’t make sense. Guys on the practice squad don’t count toward your roster. All cutting someone on the practice squad does is make room on your practice squad. If we want to sign free agents, we have to cut someone off the 53. By the way, we don’t have to be down to 53 until the preseason, so it doesn’t make any sense for us to cut anyone now anyway.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 12, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
we don’t have to be down to 53 until the preseason
exactly. There is no practice squad in the offseason. Everyone is on the same roster during the offseason which is limited to 80 players. My point was cut someone that couldn’t make the team in order to acquire new talent if we need to cut anyone.
I was not sure how much Massaquoi was getting paid. I thought it was 3 mil. But as pointed out below that was over 4 years… so my point is moot. At this point I think we keep Massaquoi for another season.
definitely.
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If they release MoMass, that would make it offically the worst 2nd round in football draft history. 3 second round picks, all 3 bust outs
ps. even if they keep MoMass, he is still kind of a bust out
Thanks Eric
I never liked Mangini as the head coach, but that draft was pretty crappy if i recall correctly, and at least he left us with better personnel than that turd Savage.
Not really, he just cut the guys Savage drafted. Savage got JT, Rubin, Steinbach and DQ. It would be nice to have Kam Wimbley or even Gerrard Warren back on restructured contracts. Other than Alex Mack I can’t think of anyone he brought in that matters.
I would have to agree. Savage>Mangini with player personnel. Albeit that doesn’t mean much.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 11, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, unfortunately correct. Just look at the four guys Chris mentioned above who are no longer in football — those were textbook Mangini guys. And now they can’t find a freaking job anywhere. See also David Veikune. Yikes.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 11, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Hows the rest of the 2009 draft doing though? That was an epically bad year all round wasn’t it?
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
Richmond McGee for sure. Possibly Carlton Mitchell.
Jayme Mitchell they will keep around, he’s serviceable depth at least. So is MoMass.
I take this optimism shit seriously.
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by The Licensed Optimist on Feb 11, 2012 2:31 AM EST reply actions
Uhhh, I seemed to have missed the big contract he signed.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 11, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
$3.6 million is total, maximum value . . . over FOUR years. It’s unlikely he’ll even be worth a million against the cap — he is definitely worth keeping around at his price right now.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 12, 2012 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
I would not cut Maynard until you know Hodges is healthy. I would also keep MoMass. He’s shown flashes of brilliance combined with lots of meh. Lets see if he can get better.
how much “lets see if he can get better” can you put in your coffee every morning?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by morning i mean year. and by coffee i mean football team. and by “lets see if he can get better” i mean cream and sugar.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Feb 11, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I drank crappy beer at a Punk bar.
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It’s a sad day in OH if this is what us Brownies are resorting to to have fun…
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 11, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
I quite enjoyed it. saw an old neighbor, he bought me a black label beer. saw some underground 70s style punk. It was enjoyable.
the music at this place is so loud, they sell earplugs behind the bar too.
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guns in airports?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Feb 11, 2012 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Due big money, questions about staying on the field, and age. Unless you actually think he was released because of the gun.
no i thought steinbach was being released because of guns in airports
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Feb 11, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And leave Pinkston at LG and Lauvao at RG? Unless Steinbach has some problems coming back (doesn’t sound like it), I think we’re better off with Pinkston at RG and Lauvao as depth. Pinkston improved as the season went on. Lauvao did too, but he’s a major liability with penalties like unsportsmanlike conduct and other stupid discipline ones. Until he can handle his temper, I’d rather have Pinkston out there.
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
Trust me, i would rather have Lauvao on the bench too. Releasing rogers didn’t make sense last year either. We could be able to land David DeCastro or Cordy Glenn in the draft. I don’t think too many people are wishing for Rogers back, and Taylor gone.
Rogers also had 2 straight seasons plagued by injuries and only one year left on his deal. Steiny had one year with injury this year and has 2 years left.
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I’m sure if he continues to have issues this next season then there’s a good probability we release him early, but we don’t have enough depth on our line to cut him just yet.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 11, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Injury issues? Very possibly. The injury he is coming back from is not an ACL, he should be fully recovered.
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I think Pinkston will stay on the left when Steinbach gets back. why break up a young triad of JT-Pinky-Mack on the left? I actually agree I could see Eric on the chopping block… but probably not until training camps and such.
Pinkston was never supposed to be RT. Heckert drafted him and almost immediately said he projects Pinkston as a G in the NFL.
I think the confusion comes from him playing RT in college (didn’t check, could be wrong).
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
Hell no. He had a fairly common back injury, a bulging disk, I’ve had that. Its not that hard to return from that after time off. He played every snap before.
isnt that how most pornos start?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
by pwndabear on Feb 11, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He did play every snap for us, when he was 27-30. Now he will be 32, coming off back surgery, and owed 6 million. If he takes a pay cut, then im fine with him. I just think we can put that 6 million to better use. He is due 6.25 million in 2013, doesn’t seem like a wise investment to me.
Money really isn’t an issue these days.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 11, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
any guard that we could get that is at a similar level in free agency would cost at least 4-5 million a year, easily.
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Exactly. Steinbach being back puts our O-line in good shape, and if we can get a good RT, we will have a beastly O-line.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 11, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree. I would love an all-offensive draft with RG3, Wright, and mike Adams as the first 3 picks. That is some serious talent.
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Yup. It was a gamble thinning out the DL like they did last year and then getting two rookie starters to shore it back up. Those dice will crap out pretty often and who we going to get or have to plug in if either Lauvao or Pinkston get hurt?
Scott Fujita, Tony Pashos, and Eric Steinbach all carry rather large cap numbers for their level of contribution. Plus, they’re all over 30. I could see these guys getting cut.
i would love to see fuji stay on at some capacity. the guy knows his stuff. hell, even as some form of personell. but yes, he may not be the best at what he does anymore.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
If he takes a pay cut, I’d love to keep him. He’s a great leader for the defense. As for Pashos, he’s fine when healthy, but he never is. Even my dad makes jokes about how there’s always something wrong with him.
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
Awe, well that’s just sad.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Feb 11, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get why we should cut all these guys. It’s not like the Browns are hurting for cap relief. They are in one of the best situations cap-wise.
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I’m not saying we should, I’m saying that I would understand it. These are the only guys on the team who have been really underperforming for their cap values. For example, there’s no reason to cut a guy like Carlton Mitchell now because he’s not getting paid anything anyway. If we plan on bringing in a starting outside linebacker via free agency, it would be easy to justify cutting Fujita because he’s making way too much for a backup.
here’s no reason to cut a guy like Carlton Mitchell now because he’s not getting paid anything anyway.
The roster spot would be a reason. But that would also mean we picked up a WR or two who is ahead on the depth chart.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I can possibly understand it, but I don’t see it even likely enough to mention honestly. 2 of those 3 guys are guys this FO brought in anyways and Steiny (who is the only one not brought in by H&H) is a very good player.
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Steinbach is slated to make $6 million this year and even more next year. With Pinkston as a possible replacement, he’s going to have to either take a pay cut or find a new team to play for.
Pinkston is our replacement for Luvao.
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by notthatnoise on Feb 11, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Pinkston as a “possible replacement”? I don’t know if you have seen Steiny play recently, but that’s a very poor replacement.
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No one has seen Steinbach play recently ( as in last year). But I would take Pinkston over him 9 out of 10 times.
really? I thought Pinkston was nice, but he was nowhere near Steinbach’s level. Just purely when playing between mack and thomas, there was a noticeable dropoff, even later in the year. We also lose something huge on pulls.
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I think people here are greatly overstating how good Steinbach is. Hes decent yes, but he was not great in pass protection. Pinkston was pretty solid in that area by the end of the season, so why not continue with the younger kid without a back problem?
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/23/help-wanted-cleveland-browns/
I know some are not huge into PFF, but they do not think highly of steinbach at all. I was trying to search for actual grading of him, but the only thing I found was his name in the “20 worst Madden Rankings.” I was trying to find an article from Pluto referencing Steinbach too, because he has brought up this notion that Steinbach is not as good as everyone thinks as well.
Here’s a blurb about Steinbach in their “20 Worst Madden Rankings:”
3. Eric Steinbach, G, Cleveland (91). Steinbach was our 85th-ranked guard out of 86 last year, which is enough said. Steinbach was particularly poor at run blocking, and he gets a laughable score of 91 from Madden in run block — four points ahead of LT Joe Thomas! Thomas was the best run-blocker in the NFL last year, bar none, yet Madden sticks him with an 87 in run blocking. Absurd.
Needless to say, I think Steinbach is getting by on past reputation and not actual play now. I mean this points out his run blocking as bad- which is supposed to be his strength no?
Based on what though? Really, I dont know if there are any stats for OL that can back up claims of good or bad, but I would like to see some sort of objective thing that is one way or another. IMO he gets by on the rep he had in Cincy and the 07 season here. Since then he has gone downhill and nobody notices- helps when you sandwich him inbetween JT and Mack, which is why I think Pinkston is fine there now.
his strength was always his athleticism anyways. He was never an elite run blocker, but an elite pull guard, which is more based off of athleticism.
I do tend to like Football Outsiders because I find their methods to be a bit more accurate and they have been doing it for longer. They don’t have exact stats for lineman, but they have RB success running along certain parts of the line.
Steinbach (because he pulls a lot) has an impact all along the line. That way, rankings from running behind the LT (because he still has a key role in containing rushers there) and outside the right end are very relevant.
In 2010, the Browns ranked 8th at LT, 21st up the middle, 5th at RT, at 15th around the outside.
This year it was 13, 22, 6, 32. Now that number around the end is probably somewhat affected by bad RB play, but that still cannot explain the dropoff. I don’t see a huge run blocking difference between Lauvao/Pashos and Womack/St.Clair. Whenever Pinkston pulled, it was a mess and it does seem to suggest this in the stats.
2009 was definitely a poor season for him, but he gets a bad rep from PFF on that alone. Notice how they don’t talk about him in 2010 pretty much at all? He had one bad game, and another where they talked about how he gave Johnathan Vilma problems at the 2nd level.
PFF’s stats like NTN pointed out at one point are all over the place at times and even so, at most he just had one bad year by them.
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I had not known the reason behind his low ranking from PFF, thats rather interesting. I would disagree about the right side of the OL comparisons you gave. Womack was head over heels better than Lauvao was this year, and I think Womack pulled and got to the 2nd level quite a bit actually. Also the whole run scheme changed between Shurmer and Mangini. In 2010 we were much more of a power run team, and getting to the outside. This past year, we tried running more in between the tackles, and a lot less to the outside. As you mention part of this could be the RB.
I think Lauvao got to the 2nd level quite a bit. Lauvao’s biggest problems this year were penalties and missed assignments, mostly in passing situations. When it came to pushing his man back, he was about as good as porkchop.
I also think losing an amazing pull guard might limit your ability to run outside. Even so, when they did run they were much less successful.
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Where did my comment on this go?
Anyway, Steinbach is a good player, and not someone we need to replace. I disagree with PFF on that one. He’ll need to be replaced at some point because he isn’t getting any younger, but he’s better than Pinkston was for the majority of the year.
Joe Thomas’ Madden rankings should all be 100, but Steinbach isn’t bad.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Yeah… I’d have to say this is a stretch. Even if Steinback comes back somewhat diminished from this injury, which I don’t think is at expected to be the case, he would still be significantly better than Pinkston could be in the next two years at least, especially run action.
Pinkston seems to have a steeper improvement trajectory than Lauvao, I think everybody wins if those two compete for the RG position in camp, just not sure which one gets the actual job as of now.
by Mal Reynolds on Feb 12, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
You and his mother are the only two people in the world.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 12, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
As I’m typing this I’m rushing past John St.Clair for a sack.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
by LocalMan on Feb 11, 2012 3:47 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
No need to rush, you could probably just walk right by.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
by DaveDawg09 on Feb 11, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
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