Mario Williams: Target Number One For Cleveland
Jon is doing an awesome job of outlining free agents by position, and has been a fantastic addition to the team.
But I wanted to touch on a certain player before we reached his positional grouping: Mario Williams. Back in August, I wrote an article in which I believed the Browns should have made a push to try and trade for Mario Williams. I was more than willing to give away a first round pick, but luck seems to have broken Cleveland's way for once.
Here is a quick run-down on what will happen, and what the Browns need to do to reel in the biggest free agent acquisition in their history.
1. The new CBA has tied the hands of the Texans
Restricted free agents can no longer be slapped with the first and third round compensation price tag. The highest return a restricted free agent can now bring is a first rounder.
It may seem insignificant, but most teams now horde draft picks like fat chicks horde cake. That extra third rounder is a huge gain for certain franchises. It's a lot easier to swallow a contract and a first rounder for Mike Wallace than two picks and a huge contract. You only get 7 picks a year.
Back to the point. The Texans have a restricted free agent in Arian Foster. Why wouldn't Cincinnati complete a filthy offensive trio with AJ Green, Andy Dalton and Arian Foster? Isn't that worth a first round pick? I'm guessing Bengal fans think so.
So the Texans have a dilemma or tag Foster and make sure he stays. Tag Williams and make sure he stays. Which one? I'm guessing they are leaning towards Foster, even with Ben Tate playing well.
But for giggles, let's say they decide to tag Mario Williams.
2. Mario Williams franchise price tag: almost 23 Million dollars for one season
Read that again. 23 million buckaroos. 23 million smackers. 23 million (insert any old-person-word-for-money).
Have you taken a look at the Texans cap situation? They finished last season 1.08 million under the cap. Sure they can move some money around and create some room, but it's gonna be hard to create that much room.
Is it worth it to the Texans to cut money from other parts of their roster to squeeze in Mario Williams? Especially when you consider that Williams is playing out of position and wasn't missed last season?
3. Brooks Reed did just fine filling in for Williams
A lot of people weren't as sold as I was on Reed. Before he was injured, I pegged him as an impact defender, and a reason that the Texans could let Williams go.
After Williams went down, Reed stepped in and the Texans didn't miss a beat. Reed racked up 6 sacks in 10 starts and gave the Texans a nice rush on the other side of Conor Barwin (11.5 sacks). Doesn't it make more sense to let they younger (and cheaper) guys keep playing?
Conclusion: When you look at the situation, the Texans are going to let Mario Williams hit the market. I know John Clayton thinks differently, but he is a pony-tailed crypt keeper. The Texans need to add another WR and CB more than keep Mario Williams around blocking Brooks Reed.
What this means to Cleveland
A. Browns need another pass rusher.
Only injuries kept Jayme Mitchell from breaking the single-season sack record, but he still needs to be replaced. We have a gaping need at DE. Sure we could roll the dice on Coples or Ingram, but that would mean the Browns would have to give up the dream of RG3. We wouldn't want to do that now would we?
Adding Williams to the grouping of Rubin, Sheard and Taylor is enough to make a fat man swoon. The best part is that it would only cost money. Lerner has had no problem breaking open the wallet (SEE!? HE'S A GOOD OWNER!).
Anyone else love the idea of a RG3-Mario Williams off-season?
B. H&H have a history of focusing assets on defensive lineman.
Phil Taylor all the way back to Reggie White. These two gentlemen know that you win and lose games in the trenches. Sure we would much rather get these kind of guys through the draft, but this is a special situation.
The Browns have the money, the need and the leadership to make this deal happen.
C. Money ain't a thang
Excuse the Kriss-Kross rap lyric, but the Browns don't have cap issues. Going back to the Mangini years, this franchise has done a great job of cutting bad contracts, and locking up the good players we do have to nice contracts that aren't anchors (Cribbs' deal aside).
So, combining that with the rookie salary cap, the Browns have a ton of money to play with this off-season. Good thing because if we want to bring in Williams, were gonna have to spend it.
I fully expect Williams will be the highest paid defensive player of all time. Richard Seymour passed the Peppers deal with 15 million per season, but it was only two seasons long.
I think Williams will want, and get, in the neighborhood of 7 years, 105 million dollars, which would put him at 15 million dollars a year. I know that is a lot of money for a guy who has had double digit sacks only twice in his career, but I think his age, combined with his position, will bring that in.
Would the Browns be better off giving Cliff Avril 7 years 70 million? Possibly, I put it to you for discussion.
The other question is his injury history. He has missed a combined 14 games the past two seasons. Is it worth the risk?
I think the Browns are at an odd cross road here. On one hand, they could continue to build young, stick to the plan and build through the draft. Or they could make an exception. Acquire a younger guy (27) that can help speed up the process of getting back to the top of the AFC North.
Whether or not it is Mario or Avril, the Browns need to bring in someone through free agency to rush the passer.
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I’d rather have Avril, but I don’t think he’s going to be franchised. But even if we miss out on him and add Williams we’re adding one of the best pass rushers in the league to our d-line for years to come. I don’t see how you can be against that.
I wasn’t – until I read the line about the games missed due to injury.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
injuries can mean very little, DQ was out for 2 years with purple nurples and still came back this season as good and impressive as ever. the injury thing doesnt concern me. 6 yr/ 90 mil. i think would be suitable for me, but i think with either avril or him is definitely what the doctor ordered.
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Feb 15, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I just don’t know enough about his injuries. Was it just the last two seasons? What kind of injuries? Any repeated injuries? Even so, my knowledge of medicine wouldn’t fill a thimble, so I guess I’d have to hope that the team sawbones knew his stuff.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
I like the idea of landing Mario Williams, but I still think we should approach with caution. The contract your suggestion is massive, but I’m not entirely opposed to it. I would just want our front office to be absolutely certain he’s worth it.
I would be worried, but in today’s NFL, teams are so good at covering their rears when it comes to contracts. The Redskins cut Haynesworth and still somehow survived.
I don’t think Williams will be a complete tire fire like Haynesworth, so I’m not as worried when it comes to handing out stacks of money.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 15, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The Redskins cut Haynesworth and still somehow survived.
If by “cut Haynesworth”, you mean traded him to the Patriots for a fifth round draft pick, then yes.
I don’t think Williams will be a complete tire fire like Haynesworth, so I’m not as worried when it comes to handing out stacks of money.
Agreed.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 15, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
My bad, on the Haynesworth situation.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 15, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
It would still be a big hit on their cap if things work like they used to. Washington payed him a pretty big signing bonus, which is money they could pro-rate over the life of the contract as long as he is still on the team, I believe. Once he leaves the team they have to accellerate that cap hit into one year.
I think New England would then be on the hook for any guaranteed money yet to be paid to him, as well as any non-guaranteed money he actually earns.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I actually did a little digging and found out that the Redskins were brilliant. They wrote the contract so the 2010 bonus was all set to drop on that season’s cap.
In short, the Redskins had no cap consequences of trading Haynesworth. I hope the Browns would use this approach if they signed a big name guy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 15, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
That price would be steep, but I would not lay seige to the front office if they concluded he was worth it to be the other bookend to Sheard. The idea of Mario Williams and Jabaal Sheard feasting on Rapelisberger twice a year is perhaps too inviting to pass up.
by ouched on Feb 14, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
to me, mario is the kind of guy that you pay whatever he wants.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 14, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
I love the move. Id also take it a step further and if the Steelers only give Wallace the 1st round tender id throw a contract his way as well. If the Steelers match we make them pay for it, if not we have just added a surefire WR for only a 1st round pick. We still have a second 1st rounder as well as an early 2nd round pick to play with. Not to mention we get the deep threat WR we have been lacking.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 4:04 PM EST reply actions
Man, you have got to get an avatar. I was reading your post and seeing DCMJ’s avatar and I kept thinking, “This doesn’t sound like anything I would have expected him to write.”
Anyway, giving up a 1st for a RFA would be, I think, predicated on the FO being satisfied with going forward with McCoy. I’m not sure they are.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
Or it could be that they feel strongly about next years QB class which has the potential to be loaded. Or it could be that they dont expect RG3 to be there at 4 and dont want to give up the other draft picks to move up 2 spots. Or that they feel getting a surefire upgrade in Wallace is better then adding a rookie who has yet to play at the Pro Level.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Or it could be that they feel strongly about next years QB class which has the potential to be loaded
Then wouldn’t the better approach be to dump out of the spot and pick up whatever you can for next season? Unless you think that the Browns are planning on picking in the top 5 again next season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
It depends. If you feel you can fill a need with the pick (by using it to sign a WR) then why not do it? Yes dropping back would be a great option, but will a team call willing to trade for Blackmon like the Falcons did for Julio last year? If so I think you jump at it immediately.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
If you feel you can fill a need with the pick (by using it to sign a WR) then why not do it?
Because you still don’t have a QB. If you want to draft one next season, you have to either stockpile picks again, or assume you’re going to pick in the top 5.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 15, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Also can you get an avatar if you are signing in through facebook?
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
yes, you just go to the profile part at the top left.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I tried to add one. Looks like it hasnt gone through yet
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
My name is Adrock2099, and I approve this avatar. I love Army of Darkness.
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
I saw Army of Darkness when I was younger, loved it. Have watched all of his movies since then. Id have to say Bubba Ho-Tep is probably my favorite.
He also does a hell of a job on Burn Notice.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Bruce Campbell is the only reason I ever watched Burn Notice.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 15, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
if the Steelers only give Wallace the 1st round tender id throw a contract his way as well.
That would be our number 4 pick. No fu@&ing way.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 14, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
So you would rather have an unproven rookie then a young deep threat WR? Sounds like a Browns fan to me.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a person with a brain actually. I don’t think there is any knowledgeable football fan out there — let alone a GM — that would trade the number 4 overall pick for Mike Wallace. Not one.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 14, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
So if we end up taking Blackmon with the #4 you would not trade Blackmon for Mike Wallace?
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t want to take Blackmon at 4. We need a QB before we start worrying about WRs. However, if we did take him, I would not trade him for Wallace.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 14, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
We arent getting RG3 at the #4 pick. There is no way he slips that far, whether it be STL or Min taking him (unlikely but not impossible) or some team trading up to get him (very likely) its not going to happen if we stay at 4. So if he is gone what player do you take? Outside of QB (if you have 0 faith in Colt) our biggest need is easily a WR, more specifically a deep threat WR. Is that not exactly what Mike Wallace is? And its not like he is nearing the end of his career, we are talking about a player entering his prime.
And all it takes is a 1st round pick. If you wouldnt rather have Mike Wallace, who again has played at the NFL level and has shown he can beat NFL coverage consistently, over an unproven WR who could be the next Megatron or could be the next Peter Warrick, I dont know what to say to you.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
The biggest problem I have with your argument is that you assume your draft scenario is certain. Mike Wallace is a good WR, but to essentially give up #4 in March when no one knows for sure what will happen in the draft come late-April would be crazy.
I would still take a 25 year old Proven WR over any player we could get with the #4 pick. Especially with us still having the later 1st round pick. Although to be fair I am anti-RG3 and am for anything that keeps us from picking him.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
if you were to keep this draft pool the exact same as it is today and then add present-day mike wallace to it there is no way he would go in the top 5, probably not even the top 10.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 14, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
We arent getting RG3 at the #4 pick. There is no way he slips that far,
Than you Harold Camping.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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by bross09 on Feb 14, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
who is harold camping?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 15, 2012 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
The guy who has three so far said the world was going to end on certain dates that have since passed.
From the infallible:
His 2011 end times prediction was that on May 21, 2011 Jesus Christ would return to Earth, the righteous would fly up to heaven, and that there would follow five months of fire, brimstone and plagues on Earth, with millions of people dying each day, culminating on October 21, 2011 with the end of the world.78 He had previously predicted judgment days on May 21, 1988, and September 6, 1994.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 15, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
We don’t even have a QB who can throw it to Wallace.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 14, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I mean Wallace’s strength is running straight very, very fast.
What about Colt McCoy makes anyone think that McCoy would be able to use this?
Adding Mike Wallace would lead to a lot of arm punts coming up short of Wallace as Ed Reed fair catches another Colt interception.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
“Arm punts” might be even funnier to me than Anderceptions.
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
I still like Anderceptions
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 15, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
If you don’t know what to say to us, I have a very apparent solution.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 15, 2012 12:20 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
No I would pass on giving the steelers #4 overall pick
by HenryDawg on Feb 14, 2012 7:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we could hurt their overall roster (and losing Wallace hurts their offense) id do it.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
It wouldn’t hurt them as much as losing a potential franchise QB will hurt us.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 14, 2012 8:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
as long as we’re talking about moving the #4 pick, why in the world would we move it for a non-awesome wide receiver when there is the opportunity to move it for a potential franchise qb (rg3)? the answer is so obvious it doesn’t even need to be stated.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 14, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
I dont see RG3 as anything more then another Brady Quinn type QB. Great in college against mediocre teams and awful in the pros. This is something we wont agree on, i had the same arguments with Browns fans before the JT/BQ draft.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
I see zero similarity between BQ and RG3, I mean absolutely nothing from their heads to their toes.
by HenryDawg on Feb 14, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Good god I mean in terms of what they will be in the Pros. He stat padded against bad Ds, got hyped up and will be a dud in the pros.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
have you actually watched RG3 play?
by Poppawolf on Feb 15, 2012 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Whether you like him or not, RG3 has the potential to be a franchise QB.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 14, 2012 9:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Depends on what you see in him. I dont see it.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not about who they played in college, it’s about the skills they bring to the table. RG3 brings a lot of skills to the table.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 14, 2012 9:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I would have had him as my 3rd QB this year if Barkley had come out. I think next years QB class will be deep enough that we can go 1 more year without taking one. Give Colt a chance with an actual offseason to learn the complex WCO, upgrade other positions of need, and if it doesnt work you get the QB next year.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think Barkley will be a dud.
If RG3 played in a “pro-style” offense, it wouldn’t even be a competition between the two. Barkley doesn’t have the tool RG3 does. Not even close.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
He doesnt have the running ability, but I think passing its pretty close.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
i’m a huge barkley fan and think he will be a very good pro … but RG3’s passing skill set is vastly in excess of barkley’s. stronger arm, more accurate, better deep ball (and barkley throws a good deep ball). barkley is good, and it’s not particularly close b/w these two.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 15, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Barkley doesn’t have the tool RG3 does. Not even close.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 15, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Next year we probably won’t have two first round picks in the first round, one of them being a fourth. If H&H think he’s the one they’ll pull the trigger this year.
This post has been previewed and approved by me.
This
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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Who says we plan to suck? I still think McCoy could be a serviceable NFL QB in the WCO. But he needs more then 2 weeks of TC to learn it and get the timing down with his WRs.
If it works out great, we move forward and continue to build the team. If it doesnt we get the next hot rookie next year because there is always one come draft time.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
You can watch Colt in his first couple of pre-season games, or last year against Pitt and NYJ and you could see a real QB, despite the results. He looked poised and confident. I don’t know what happened this year be he shriveled like George Costanza in a swimming pool. If it had been for a couple of games that would be one thing, but it was pretty much all season. He may have gotten a bit better near the end. I think he has a chance to be really good but I’m not going to waste another year finding out.
by HenryDawg on Feb 14, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really dont think its wasting the year. We put him into a new system with two weeks to learn it. How many QBs could succeed doing that?
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Alex Smith, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton…
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Tim Tebow
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Feb 15, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
of course it’s a waste. colt is never going to be a great quarterback. you yourself say you “still think mccoy could be a serviceable NFL QB…” well, serviceable doesn’t get you anywhere.
the longer you wait to plug a good young qb in the longer you have to wait for things to click for that good young qb and the longer you have to wait for your team to go to the next level.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 15, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing says 6-10 like “serviceable QB”.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 15, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
the “hot” rookies tend to go, you know, high in the draft. like in the top 4…
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 15, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t assume you will have the high draft picks and the trade leverage to get a top qb next season. That’s like planning on paying some bills with next weeks lottery winnings. I’m sick of waiting around its time to grab our qb now. We must get RG3.
Why must I be like that, Why must I chase the cat?
by rdy on Feb 15, 2012 8:58 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Wait. With Barkley in the draft you would have considered RGIII to be the 3rd best QB in the draft, but without Barkley in the draft RGIII just isn’t that good?
Regardless of that question, if you go the ‘wait a year’ route you are gambling that either Colt will show rapid progression with ceiling to spare or that we will suck worse than this year. Because if Colt doesn’t progress but we still manage to win 4-5 games we will likely still need to trade up to get a really good QB. The only difference is that we won’t necessarily have the extra draft picks to trade away.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
by JustBob on Feb 15, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This isn’t hyperbole, I really think that he is the most complete pass-run combo player to ever enter this league.
Vick was a better runner, but RG3 is twice the passer. Newton is close, but I think RG3 will end up being a better passer and a more electric runner (by that I mean a guy who will run for 15 yards when he is flushed on a 3rd and 12. I think Newton will always have more rushing statistics).
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think the confidence angle gets underplayed.
We all know the COlt “ahy is in the barn” speech, but you have to back it up. The guys following you have to believe that you can get it done. It’s ooe of the reasons that I think Tebow has been better than I thought.
Everyone thinks that Tebow will get it done, so they play their ass off for him. I don’t think Colt gets that kind of response from these guys yet, even though I think Colt is better than Tebow.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
By the way, this looks like I’m drunk because the wireless keyboard at work sucks.
Promise.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
I dont want RG3 being a running QB in the Pros, I want him to scramble out of trouble like Fran Tarkenton, not the next Mike Vick.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 15, 2012 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
Really I could care less how he does it. I don’t want anyone forcing him to stay in the pocket if he’s more comfortable moving around. My prediction is that he runs a lot his first year and that number goes down every year as he gets more comfortable reading defenses. By his 3rd to 4th year he would be picking them apart.
It’s five o’clock somewhere.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 15, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
They have sanders and brown in waiting. They don’t care that much. Those guys all look awesome because their fat ass qb delivers them the football on a platter
by HenryDawg on Feb 14, 2012 8:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh man, you are going to HATE this year’s draft. From every mock I’ve seen, nothing BUT unproven rookies. It’s like these front offices don’t have a clue.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 15, 2012 12:19 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 7 recs
I’m not giving away the number four pick.
This week, DBN was asked a great question on twitter by Jesse Jeffers, would it be the #4 or the #22 pick if we signed a restricted free agent.
The compensation is indeed the pick that “belongs” to you originally. I like Wallace, but not for the #4 pick. I think he is incredibly fast, but looks good because he has a QB that can throw the ball downfield. We need that before we go looking for a Wallace.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
For the record, I’d gladly give up the #22 pick for Wallace, but that’s not the way it works, so there’s no point in it.
Agreed. Also, I think that’s a crappy system. I don’t know what the better alternative is, but a bad team paying more than a good team would for the same free agent doesn’t seem right in a league of parity.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 14, 2012 9:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It’s a great system. It rewards teams that build through the draft.
It gives them some cover when they have a free agent that wants to leave.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
It rewards teams that draft well. Theres a reason the Browns have struggled and its because our drafts have really sucked. Look back through the years, how many of our 1st and 2nd rounders went on to play anywhere else and really contribute? Its a low number.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s why I love Heckert. I think that tide has turned.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
I can agree with this. And I like the depth he has built at CB. Skrine and Dockery I think have potential if they can learn from Sheldon, Patterson, and Haden.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
trading the 4 pick for mike wallace is not going to do anything to help the quality of our drafts…
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 15, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Just look Mangini’s first draft. He made a great move trading with the Jets and wasted all the picks. We had good opportunities in that draft & didn’t capitalize. Years of bad drafting with a few homeruns (God), have left a roster that looked ready for a “Major League” type of move. H & H have made smart moves to reverse that, though you cant erase 11 years of shitting the bed in two years. Probably another two drafts gets us over the top if we are smart and maximize every pick. So far our current front office has done a great job, & want them to continue.
A bargain is something you don't need at a price you can't resist....
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong!
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch!
Once you start agreeing with TDSH, you know that you're wrong.
YES.
Great point about the cost of the tag vs. cap space, RB is only around 7 million, i believe.
Secondly,
…like fat chicks horde cake.
Only injuries kept Jayme Mitchell from breaking the single-season sack record…
Thanks for these gems. Great read
Fat chicks don’t horde cake, they EAT it.
Yes they do! Have you ever heard the story of a fat chick who complains of stomach pain? What does the doc usually find when he looks…..in certain areas…../Barf.
Yes im a troll. Yes I hate everyone. Yes I like Colt McCoy. Yes Im 4 years old. Yes I get butt hurt. Deal with it.
by dirtyjoe on Feb 15, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That 100 million-plus deal would really be massive, maybe restraining on the cap in later years…
I absolutely love Mario’s skillset, though.
Also, let’s not forget Mario has to agree to come and play to Cleveland, with a full-blown rebuilding process currently taking place.
Also, let’s not forget Mario has to agree to come and play to Cleveland, with a full-blown rebuilding process currently taking place.
Heckert: “Hey, Mario, if you come here and play, you get a crapload of money and never have to go against that guy (points at Joe Thomas)”
Mario: Where do I sign?
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I also think the effect of having Sheard present is huge. Offenses can’t give help on both sides, one of those guys is going to be 1-on-1 every pass play, and I like those odds.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 15, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
That is a Huge selling point, and one of the biggest reasons I was very happy that Holmgren got hired. The man is no dummy and he brought in a good talent evaluator in Heckert. Veterans will want to come here and play, especiaslly when they get to look really damn good. I think he’d look good in Orange & brown.
I also don’t think Tom’s gonna do any buffets anymore – weightwatchers – it worked for Jennifer Hudson, she’s so friggin hot….
A bargain is something you don't need at a price you can't resist....
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong!
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch!
Once you start agreeing with TDSH, you know that you're wrong.
There’s no excuse for Kriss cross rap lyrics. Seriously. So many other lyrics that convey the “$ ain’t a thing” point.
That being cleared up – I love Williams opposite Sheard. You can almost picture big Ben in that dumb hat making excuses about a brown and orange avalanche ruining his season!
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Feb 14, 2012 4:54 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
Also I don’t think he’ll come here for any money. He’ll go to the Pitt, Bal, Washington or Philly, teams that don’t have to adhere to salary caps.
Let him go to Pitt. We’ll just end his season with an injury.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 14, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He definitely won’t go to Pitt or Baltimore. He isn’t a 3-4 linebacker, he’s a 4-3 end, and he’ll want to be paid like it. OLBs makes less money.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 15, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone else love the idea of a RG3-Mario Williams off-season?
great googly moogly…
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 14, 2012 6:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Hey that’s great, but who are the Chefs?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 15, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
. Mario Williams franchise price tag: almost 23 Million dollars for one season
Do you have a source? I have seen those numbers thrown around and I have repeated them myself, but I can’t find a source for it. This says that Defensive Ends cost about 10 million.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 14, 2012 6:43 PM EST reply actions
Williams would cost more because of his salary. He made 18 million dollars this season. His salary is so high because he is one of the few rookies that played out their rookie contract without getting cut/restructuring/etc, so he actually reached the so-called “dummy years” at the end of bloated contracts.
The franchise tag has a clause that states, if the tag price isn’t at least 120% higher than what the player made the previous season, then that number becomes the franchise tag salary for the player.
Since Williams made 18 million last season, his franchise tender would then end up being 22.9 million dollars.
So, even the argument of Williams being an OLB instead of a DE is worthless. He is getting 22.9 million even if he is tagged as a punter.
Hope this helped, I had to do some digging because I had the same question myself.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wow — drafted in 2006 and he was still on his rookie contract.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 15, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
even if he is tagged as a punter
Patriots should tag Welker as a kicker, given that he has done some kicking in the last couple of years. That would be awesome.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 15, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Adding Williams to the grouping of Rubin, Sheard and Taylor is enough to make a fat man swoon.
This is all I needed to hear. This would be a top 5 defensive line in the NFL. Add that to a solid secondary and a decent linebacking corps (love DQ and Gocong) and this defense would have an extremely bright future
The thing I like about that most is we could continue to add to it.
Williams has enough size and strength that he could end up moving inside on certain pass rushing downs later on in his career. The Giants do this kind of thing all the time. You see Canty and Tuck lined up as DT’s in their pass rushing packages. It gives Guards fits to deal with that kind of speed up the middle.
Anyone else excited about the idea of Rubin and Mario in the middle and Sheard and Bernard on the outside on 3rd and long? Give H&H a few more seasons, they could add situational pass rushers to make it a truly elite unit.
Williams’ size and strength would allow the Browns to really do some unique things up front that other teams wouldn’t be able to do. It’s the only reason I haven’t totally gotten on the Avril bandwagon yet.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I like it. My only question: Would it make it more difficult to acquire those extra pass rushers after paying Williams so much money?
I love great pass rushers though. Its one my favorite aspects of the current game, and if I got to watch a Browns D-line dominating QBs every week I would poop happiness and cry rainbows.
by BiggieBrown on Feb 14, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not if you are drafting them. It allows you to draft a guy who is purely a pass rush specialist and groom him behind Williams, Sheard, Taylor and Rubin.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
sure does. i like it more and more every time i hear someone say it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 14, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Something we agree on lol Honestly I wish we had that situation when we had guys like Alex Hall and even now with Bernard. Hell Clifton Geathers probably would have done well learning from and backing up a line like that.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Like Justin mentions, we could try and add them through the draft.
Plus we wouldn’t have to be targeting guys that are “complete” DE’s, which means their stock would be lower. A guy with crazy speed off the edge but can’t set the edge against the run? Take him in the second round, we wouldn’t need him to be “complete” right away.
It would make a strength turn into one of the leagues best units. The Giants did it with JPP even though they had Tuck, Canty and Osi.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
If we can pull it off for Mario (and I think its a possibility) there are even some guys that will be mid to late round picks this year that I think would fit the mold of a project player perfectly.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Can you give an example of a DE specialist in the NFL right now? Are we talking like a Shaun Rogers type player who’d only come in on third downs?
I like the idea actually having time to groom younger players as well. Like I said above, I am all about building a nasty D Line in any way possible. I love watching Brady or Roethlisberger getting crushed in the backfield.
Look at JPP in NY. He is purely a pass rush specialist. Playing behind those other guys they can work on his run support skills so that when its time for one of them to move on he can just step in.
Its like the Steelers and their LBs, the Giants and their DL draft depth and groom players.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 14, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Anderson is a perfect example. As a rookie with Chicago he racked up 12 sacks.
He came in on third down and went after the passer like his hair was on fire. Chicago rushed him to be a full 4-3 DE and he stunk. They ended up cutting him, this past season he was a situational pass rusher for NE and tallied 10 sacks.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
That is a great example. I remember Mark Anderson, Chicago is my second favorite team, and wondered what happened to him. Okay, I am down. Lets do this.
by BiggieBrown on Feb 14, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
I read Buffalo and Miami were moving back to the 4-3, which sucks because that was one of the cool things about moving to the 4-3, more 43 DEs for us.
Buffalo beat writer is on record saying he doesn’t think they will get into a bidding war.
Just a FYI.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t even get me excited about this.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Seriously, This would be too awesome to handle.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 15, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I like it. I hope we could get him for a little less than 105 million. That bottom line for me is H&H haven’t given me a reason not to trust their judgement. One of the articles Jon posted this morning, I think, discussed letting the off-season process take place. I think that is where I am at right now with RG3, Hillis, Free Agents, and all the other current debates. It seems like H&H set us up, by hording picks and cap space, for a great off-season so I am just going to sit back and let Jesus, or the guys with years of football experience, take the wheel.
If the front office isn’t afraid of his injury history, I’d say go for it. And draft another one while we’re at it! I want more DEs like a fat kid desperately wants to lose weight but doesn’t know how because he learned poor eating habits from his parents.
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
This article is the top story on google when you enter in Mario Williams franchise tag. Cool.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 14, 2012 8:56 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
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"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
by Adrock2099 on Feb 14, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Im on board for this. If he is the only FA we could bring in (and sign Hillis and DQ) I would be thrilled. It would give our D an identity and help out the secondary immensely. Get this done- and hope that RG3 comes to us at 4 (though I am more than willing to trade w/e needs to to get one of the top 2 QBs- Yes, I would do the king’s ransom for Luck if they thought THAT highly of him).
I like this better where we sign Hillis and DQ and put all our FA dollars into Williams. A little risky if he gets injured but so what? We’re no worse off and unless its career ending we’ll have him for the next 5-7 years.
I knew he would be a DE for us. I also figured he would be more comfortable in a 4-3. I didn’t know if he stated what scheme he wants to be in though. If he only wants to play DE, then that significantly puts us as a contender for him
And I say this from a money standpoint.
DE’s get more money than OLB’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 15, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think Williams would get the same contract for playing either position. However, I think the wiser investment would be at DE. Ware got a bigger contract than Allen did, both for 6 years.
Allen’s deal was for six years 73 million while Ware’s was for seven years 79 million.
Defensive Ends are always going to be bigger contracts than OLB’s. It’s just easier to find OLB’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 15, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t read anything that he’s actually said, but just from a size, skills, and playing style standpoint he is pretty much the prototype at 4-3 DE.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
also, he’s played every year of his life except for 2011 as a 4-3 DE, right?
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 15, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions

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