Cleveland Browns Free Agency Talk - WRs
by Jon @ DBN on Feb 17, 2012 8:15 AM EST
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With the NFL Free Agency drawing closer every day, DBN is going to discuss free agent targets for the Cleveland Browns at each major position. We've already taken a look at potential free agent QBs and RBs. Today we continue our free agency talk with the wide receivers.
Personally, I think this has the potential to be the most exciting position of free agency as well. Not only is the pool of FA WRs very deep, but it's also one of the Browns' biggest weaknesses. It has been for too long now. The Browns also have a lot have cap space to work with. It's going to come down to whether or not the Browns' front office is willing to use that available money and if any of the WRs will want to come to Cleveland. This deep FA pool ranges from plenty of high profile names to solid role players and everywhere in between. Check it out after the jump.
- Steve Johnson (BUF - 25) – I think Steve Johnson is the best combination of ability, age and character among the unrestricted free agents. His biggest issue last season was celebration penalties, which appeared to be fixed by a swift benching. However, I expect him to stay with the Buffalo Bills.
- Dwayne Bowe (KC - 27) – Dwayne Bowe’s woes early in his career were the dropped passes. That concern is still there, but the productivity hasn’t gone away, outside of a 4-game suspension for using a diuretic in 2009. Despite the drops, I think he brings too much to the table not to consider.
- Vincent Jackson (SD - 29) – Vincent Jackson is in the older group of free agent receivers. He still had a good season in 2011. I didn’t like the contract dispute in 2010, but it’s not the first time a player has had issues with the San Diego Chargers. He’ll be on the market and he’s a big play threat, which the Browns need.
- DeSean Jackson (PHI - 25) – I’m always paranoid about going after prima donna wide receivers. DeSean Jackson has proven himself to be just that. But, he’s also an all-world talent. His speed is remarkable and he brings that as both a receiver and a returner. Recent reports have said that the Philadelphia Eagles will franchise tag Jackson.
- Marques Colston (NO - 28) – In six seasons, five of which were for 1,000+ receiving yards, Marques Colston has been very consistent. He’s more of a possession receiver than a speed guy. But, he catches everything in his time zone, which is an improvement in an area where other Browns receivers have struggled.
- Robert Meachem (NO - 27) – With the emergence of Jimmy Graham and Darren Sproles, Robert Meachem’s role wasn’t a major one for the New Orleans Saints. Meachem was sixth in receptions for the team last season. But, he was second in yards per catch and remained a threat. I think he’d add good depth at WR for the Browns.
- Laurent Robinson (DAL - 26) – It’s surprising to me that Laurent Robinson has been with four different teams at only 26 years old. He didn’t have a breakout performance until reaching the Dallas Cowboys. Injuries to Miles Austin pushed Robinson up the depth chart and he played remarkably. If Dallas lets him go, and it looks like they may, I’d be happy to see him on the Browns.
- Wes Welker (NE - 30) – If we’re looking for a veteran wide receiver, Wes Welker is a premiere target. He’s the ideal slot receiver that does amazing things after the catch. Not surprisingly, he led the league in yards after catch last season. He also led the league in receptions by a wide margin. The question is whether the New England Patriots want to commit to him.
- Mario Manningham (NYG - 25) – Mario Manningham caught the most crucial pass in Super Bowl XLVI. However, in four seasons with the New York Giants he hasn’t set himself apart. This past season he only had one more reception than Jake Ballard and less yards. The Plain Dealer’s Cleveland Browns beat reporter Mary Kay Cabot still thinks Manningham is "exactly the type of WR the Cleveland Browns need."
- Pierre Garçon (IND - 25) – Only two Indianapolis Colts receivers put up solid numbers without Peyton Manning. Both of them are unrestricted free agents. Pierre Garçon is the younger of the two. In his four seasons in the NFL, he has improved but isn't a major standout. That could make him more obtainable for the Browns than the higher profile free agents.
- Brandon Lloyd (STL - 30) – Since exploding for over 1,400 yards in 2010, Brandon Lloyd has crashed back to Earth. He still led the St. Louis Rams in receiving last season. He may be an affordable veteran for the Browns.
- Jerricho Cotchery (PIT - 29) – I think Jerricho Cotchery could add depth and veteran experience but wouldn’t be a major difference maker for the Browns.
- Early Doucet (ARI - 26) – Early Doucet has slowly risen throughout his four years with the Arizona Cardinals. He’s played behind the likes of Larry Fitzgerald for his entire career, as well as Anquan Bolden for half. There may be potential there.
- Eddie Royal (DEN - 25) – Eddie Royal has fallen pretty significantly since his rookie season. He would add speed to the WR core if he landed in Cleveland, but I’m not sure he’d add much else.
- Ted Ginn (SF - 26) – If you’re thinking, "We already have a return man!" I understand where you’re coming from. But with that said, if he’s affordable, I wouldn’t mind a returner that can still put it in the endzone.
- Reggie Wayne (IND - 33) – Even without Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne was only 40 yards away from an eighth consecutive 1,000+ yard season. I’m not sure he’s worth outbidding other potential suitors, but he’s at least worth a consideration.
- Mike Wallace (PIT - 25) Restricted – I can’t imagine any scenario where the Pittsburgh Steelers let Mike Wallace walk outside of some serious cap issues. Even then, the Steelers GM Kevin Colbert has said that Wallace is a priority. At only 25, Wallace has been incredible for the Steelers.
Remember, if you think there is a potential FA WR that the Browns should target that might have been overlooked or is even just worth mentioning, feel free to discuss that here. Think of this as a free agency open thread dealing with wide receivers.
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Eliminating Colston (everyone will be after him) and Jackson (probably tag), my ranking of realistic options weighing cost/opportunity are:
Robinson
Garcon
Manningham
I’m not as low as others are on Manningham. I think his best is yet to come, which is what it’s smart people spend money on instead of what they’ve already done for another team. But I think a lot of other teams think that way, and the Superbowl only made the spotlight brighter. So I doubt he comes cheap enough to make it a good deal.
I’m not sure what it is about Robinson, but I enjoyed watching him all season.
Steel Nick
Laurent Robinson was fantastic. The hope would be that he’s not a one hit wonder. As a fantasy owner, I watched fair amount of him this past season, but I’d still want to look at the tape again.
I can’t put my finger on it, but there is something about that Dallas offense that allows these guys to come out of nowhere and play amazing. Miles Austin, DeMarcco Murray, Laurent Robinson
I think Robinson’s biggest problem has always been poor QB play and/or being banged up. If he can stay healthy and RG3 comes in and has success, I think he could be a decent WR.
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I am not expecting all the production of Dallas
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I don’t think Manningham brings as much as Garçon, but I’d be happy if either of them were willing to come here. I’m desperate for more depth at WR, good depth. I still wouldn’t mind going high on Bowe, VJackson, or even Wes Welker.
If Stevie is unobtainable, which appears to be a possibility, my next target would be Laurent Robinson.
A) I’m not really considering any of those top tier guys because of both the number of teams that will be in on them, and because I’m assuming a WR will be adding in the first two rounds of the draft as well. So Little + Robinson/Garcon/Manningham + Wright/Sanu/Floyd/whatever sounds fine to me without paying huge money.
B) I hope Robinsons isn’t a one-hit wonder either, but that’s sort of the reason I like him as an undervalued target. Because his skills are still somewhat unproven, the Browns have a chance to swoop in, offer him a contract, and watch him prove he really is what he showed the league in 2011 for considerably less money than the other top WRs got.
Steel Nick
I think Welker gets franchised or gets a long-term deal. I don’t see the Patriots letting him walk.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with your first two picks, but I would choose Meacham over Manningham…I think he has good potential…he averages about 6 TD’s per year and was second on New Orleans for average yards per reception, I think around 15 to 16 YPC…..he woud add depth to our WR as a #3…maybe # two on our team….I think we could get him at a reasonable price…
I hear of a legendary man whose skills are the stuff of legend. Mere mortals would cower in terror at the sound of his name. You know of whom I speak. The legendary Robiskie can save us. Some claim brief spottings of this man, but many dismiss his existence as myth. We need to find this man.
I hear of a legendary man whose skills are the stuff of legend. Mere mortals would cower in terror at the sound of his name. You know of whom I speak. The legendary
As I was first reading through this, I thought for sure you were talking about Wes Welker. If you cut it off where I have, it applies to him as well.
Oooh, I like that thought. I might be persuaded to take Welker over Robiskie.
Is there any way NE lets Welker walk, though? I can’t imagine they would let him go that easily. What would the possibility of a sign-and-trade sort of deal be? I know I’ve heard talk that Philly would franchise Jackson in hopes of getting something for him on the trade market. Would NE do the same thing? We’ve got draft picks, and NE loves those.
Isn’t NE looking for another WR? Seems unreasonable that they would put themselves in a position to be looking for two.
Steel Nick
At first glace, I think NE would do what it takes to keep Welker, but they are also stingy sometimes. Ultimately, I think Welker and NE will come to terms that are good for both parties.
I’ve been having this discussion with buddies as well. Welker just seems like too much of a core guy – on the field and in the locker room – for them to let him walk. I also think he is such a team guy and appreciates playing with Brady so much that he will be willing to give some kind of discount to stay.
Stingy but smart. With Welker, there is also an intangible in that Brady will insist on him being kept and I think they listen to Brady.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Brady without Welker? He is too important. Remember how much Bernie used Brian Brennan? We have no shot at Wes Welker.
by Granville74 on Feb 18, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t imagine they pick Lloyd instead of Welker. I can see them adding Lloyd, but only in addition to Welker.
Yes.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I do think NE would be a great situation for Lloyd. 2010 proved he can play well in a system. And now he rejoins that OC Josh McDaniels.
This isn’t Chad Johnson, someone who cannot understand a playbook unless it’s written in Ernie’s magic shapes.
by Jon @ DBN on Feb 17, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lol… Thank you! Ochocinco has to be one of the biggest idiots i’ve ever seen… on display whenever he opens his mouth. I think this year cemented that notion.
That’s the other reason I believe they will go after Lloyd or someone similar – Branch and Chad are pretty much done.
I’m sorry, but Ro-who?
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 12:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You know of whom I speak.
Jayme Mitchell.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Steve Smith, originally with the NYG, last year Eagles is also a FA. He had a bad year last year but put up a lot of yardage previously. Really almost anyone on this list who could stay healthy would be an upgrade. I am high on Meachem and Garcon, for no other reason than either can stretch the field, and scare a secondary with their speed. We have nobody like that (other than C. Mitch, who is busy tweeting).
Steve Smith’s disappearing act really surprised me. I almost put him on the list, but I think he has some debilitating issue from his previous injury. Other teams (Eagles) have tried to see if he can still play and it didn’t work out.
He did, and was placed on IR for a bone bruise on the same knee last season after a fairly poor 9 games.
There’s also no guarantee of recovery.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 17, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Really almost anyone on this list who could stay healthy would be an upgrade
I don’t agree. I think if you put MoMass or Little in just about any of those offenses, they would do just as well as Manningham, Meachem, Garcon and Doucet.
And as for Ted Ginn, Royal or Cotchery, I prefer our guys (especially for Ginn, who sucks).
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Mo Mass would be very good anywhere and Little probably isn’t going to get 120 targets anywhere in the league besides Cleveland and I pray he doesn’t get that many next season.
I guess we just disagree on MoMass. I think he’s been pretty good for us in light of the crap he has had throwing to him for three seasons — the concussion issue is definitely something to worry about though.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
outside of a few flashes of getting it I just haven’t seen much development out of Mo Mass. He looks exactly like the player we drafted in the 2nd round 3 years ago. I haven’t seen much growth or development, that’s what leads me to believe he wouldn’t be much better elsewhere. Although I suppose it would be hard for any WR to develop with the shit QB play we have had since 2009.
I am with you on Massaquoi. And I cringe every time he is thrown to because I think he might die on the field.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I dont think he sucks, but I dont think he will ever be better then “meh.” He has a high drop rate and he doesnt excel in any area of the game. Hes just kind of sound with a lot of things.
With his concussion history, I would be chickenshit to run a slany route too. The concussions are in his head. He is a short term player for us.
by Granville74 on Feb 18, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
I like slany better. I move that we hereby refer to slant routes as slany routes here at DBN.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
The concussions are in his head.
What does this mean?
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Ha, I mean they’re literally in his head. Other than that I would assume he means that if he’s thinking “I don’t want to get smashed in the face and end my life by way of concussion” or something like that then it would effect the way he plays. I sure as hell would think twice about crossing over the middle if I was him.
Especially when your QB is telegraphing that from a mile away to every linebacker and safety in the game.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
surprised more people aren’t high on Meachem, he has kinda been the odd man out in New Orleans and I think he can be at least as good as Garcon if he came here and probably wouldn’t cost much more than Garcon.
As wiser men than I have stated, the argument that a receiver is going to get better when they no longer have Drew Brees is a tough one to make. I understand what people are saying, but it’s just a hope based on alleged “potential” from his college days.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I can totally understand this argument but at the same time when he isn’t competing with Colston, Graham, Sproles, Moore and Henderson for targets that should in theory help right?
Yes, it should and I subscribed to that theory before. But I think that is just based on hope.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Henderson is barely competition and he struggled to separate himself in that offense from Henderson. Even before Colston, moore, and Graham came around, Henderson wasn’t that great.
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i don’t think meacham catches the ball that well and i don’t think he runs particularly awesome routes. he would be an improvement over our current trash at wr, but not the game changer we need there.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 17, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
It seems there is some disagreement with how good what we currently have is. I agree more along the lines with you, in that our current WR core is pretty atrocious. As such, even adding a depth guy like Meachem is an improvement.
I can’t think of any receivers we have that are better than Meachem, he would be our #1 receiver and we would be better. He ran sub 4.4 at the combine a few years ago, not sure what he runs now but he’s fast.
Little. Pure ability-wise, meacham is our best WR if we get him. I just worry about a guy who struggles to beat out Devery Henderson for targets who is clearly just a deep threat.
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oh, he would clearly be our best receiver. but that’s an awfully low bar.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s see…my preferences in order would be…1. Stevie Smith 2. Laurent Robinson 3. Pierre Garcon 4. Robert Meachem 5. mario Manningham…I left out Jackson, Jackson, Bowe, Lloyd etc. because of age, difficulty in signing them to come here and attitudes.
If we find wright in the draft, I want the browns to find someone with “leaping ability” in free agency. as far as receivers go, the browns need some speed and someone who can go over a corner. little is solid, but neither of those
with that said, i see laurent robenson here. an under acheiver who can come in and help and break out to a star but not gonna require H&H to break the bank. if the football gods shine some love on the browns on draft day and we get to keep both firstrounders, a little wright robinson cribbs receiving corps with RG3 throwing to them actually sounds really good
Yeah, I think Little is a good #3, but right now I just see him as the guy to throw to because the rest of the depth chart is really bad.
he has never screamed #1 to me but i see him as a “valuable piece of the receiving future” whatever that means.
I am not sure how you define #1, but I define it as the best WR on a good team. Little has that potential given what he accomplished in his rookie year with a crappy QB and after being out of football for a year.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Really? Only a #3? He did lead all rookies in catches, after all. I know he had problems with drops (IMO that was very much on Colt’s sloppy ball placement) but he seemed to get open pretty often. I would call him a good #2. He’s not a burner, but he uses his body well to leverage against defenders and can be a beast with YAC. I see him as kind of in the T.O. mold physically.
I’m not ready to proclaim him a #1 caliber guy, but I think its way too early to relegate him to a #3 role. Let’s see what he does with a QB who has a live, accurate arm.
Being a #3 doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It means we finally have a legit #1 and #2.
T.O. was a burner in his good years. Also had those other qualities.
I’d still want all our WRs to earn their spot in training camp regardless. If Little out plays anyone we add, so be it.
Haha, ahh, I see it’s wishful thinking that we’ll get two guys this year that make him look like a #3 – i’m ALL for that.
I still think the T.O. comparison holds pretty well, Little’s not slow or anything either.
Couldn’t agree more on earning their spots. I really don’t give a %@#$ where they came from, like everything else in this league, its “what have you done for me lately?” and “what can you do right now?” that matters.
he may develop into a YAC guy but he showed very little ability to do that in the offense last year. The big problem to me is that too often when we threw to Little he was standing still waiting for the ball. To me Little and Cribbs needs to get he ball on the move to be most effective.
I know one does not equal the other, but after the Arizona game he was tied for the league lead among WRs in broken tackles; I don’t know where he finished the season. At least to me, that seems to suggest he can grab a few yards after the catch.
Steel Nick
he had like 250 yds of YAC, good enough for 70th in the league, in 61 catches and like 1/4 of that came on the TD catch in the Arizona game. I would hope he can develop into a better YAC guy as his career progresses.
you realize thats 4 YAC per reception which isn’t particularly awful. Its only slightly less than Dwayne Bowe and more than Roddy White.
You also have to consider the QB play. a WR is more likely to get YAC when they can catch the ball in stride. Little wasn’t able to do that because of Colt.
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You also have to consider the QB play. a WR is more likely to get YAC when they can catch the ball in stride. Little wasn’t able to do that because of Colt.
Ding, ding, ding, ding. You win.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
he may develop into a YAC guy but he showed very little ability to do that in the offense last year.
Right. I didn’t see anything last season that made me think he’s much of a YAC guy.
WTF?
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Greg Little has 249 yards after catch (70th in the league) on 61 receptions. You can blame the QB all you want. I didn’t see anything last season that made me think he’s much of a YAC guy.
Out of the top 40 players in the league in YAC, 21 were TEs and RBs…mostly RBs too (only about 3 TEs). They are more likely to be in positions to create YAC as opposed to WRs.
He is 37th among WRs, and 33rd in YAC average among WRs. Even Cribbs’ yac average wasn’t spectacular which I think has a lot to do with the QB
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Consider each team has 2 starting WRs. That makes him a high end “2nd best” WR on a team in YAC.
With bad QB play, Johnny Knox lost .5 yards on his average in terms of YAC. It wasn’t bad QB play all year, but Cutler was worse and got hurt.
With an insane year from Cutler, Jordy Nelson’s YAC average jumped up .6.
Stafford’s great play caused Calin Johnson’s YAC average to jump up 1.2. Steve Smith’s YAC jumped up about the same amount.
If our QB play can go from awful like it was in Carolina in 2010, to having a good rookie QB, his numbers will jump. easily.
WRs wigh bad QBs rarely put up decent YAC numbers.
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Pointing you to 6:28
Pointing you to 11:02
If that doesn’t scream YAC potential to you, I don’t know what will.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
links didn’t work _
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3-Z847P7F8&
here we go. 11:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG7guYAUm2A&
6:28
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Pointing you to the 20 minutes of tape there. Watch the entire thing.
He’s had some good plays, such as those 9-10 yards you point out. If two plays is all that it takes to scream potential, then are countless WRs out there YAC potential.
Personally, I expect more than 249 YAC (on 61) from a receiver that I’m willing to call “a YAC guy.” Maybe for some people that’s what makes a good YAC receiver, maybe for some there are 50+ YAC receivers in this league. I’ll agree to disagree with them.
I agree that his numbers are pretty low, but the potential is there based on the tape. I only saw the two but there were more. I’m saying that he can easily become a YAC guy.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no QED to this argument, but this was all I was referencing when I said I like what he could turn into. What you see in this entirely small sample size, although the effort is always there, is that Little seems determined to always make the first guy miss or stay up after initial contact. There’s no negative at all to that and it should be encouraged for all wide receivers, but it also doesn’t necessarily portend great things. Me, I like it.
Steel Nick
I did see encouraging signs from him in terms of YAC. No one is saying he’s a YAC beast right now. The crappy thing about discussing potential is that it’s so speculative.
He’s got the tools to be great in that area though. He’s pretty big and physical for a receiver, and the fact that he started at rb in college (as well as some evidence on tape) tells you he has enough wiggle to be somewhat elusive in space.
As for the ’why’s, it’s usually a combination of things. In his case, i see it as a mixture of poor QB play, no better alternatives to draw coverage away, and a rookie learning curve that was compounded by a year away from the field because of suspension and no real offseason.
Despite that, he led all rookies not named AJ Green – including the guy that brought us the #22 and a fourth this year – in receptions, and in my eyes, improved as the year went on. I think he is on track to validate his draft position, and has the potential to exceed it in value.
Despite that, he led all rookies not named AJ Green
Would you stop repeating this nonsense. How many starting rookie WRs were there in 2011?
by The Licensed Pessimist on Feb 17, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Still he had 61 catches and didn’t start until the STL game. Green started the entire year, was a ROY candidate and had some more catches than Little. Also Little is just barely learning how to be a receiver and he’s still our best one. Do you always have to be a pessimist? Nevermind.
Even though Little didn’t “start”, he was still probably most involved in the gameplan than any of our other crappy WRs at the time and received a significant amount of targets. Little doesn’t get extra kudos because he put up non-horrible numbers due to being on a team devoid of WR talent in a lackluster WR rookie class.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Feb 17, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
And yet you leave out quarterback play and a generally terrible offense. Strange.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
a lackluster WR rookie class
Making stuff up again?
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
How do you define “starting”. Besides Green Little, 5 other WRs started at least 1 game. All of those 5 played key roles in the offense. 4 of those 5 started at least 9 games and the one that didn’t was Doug Baldwin who was still a key weapon for the Seahawks
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I love how you view Little starting as a bad thing.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 17, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
What other yardstick would you use to evaluate him? The point was to say he’s doing well for his situation. That even though he was chosen in the late second round, he was at least on par with, or better in terms of production than a guy that cost his team a motherload of picks.
Way to live up to your user name tho.
I think a big part of that was the inability of the offense to stretch the field.
Every defense we faced sat on the underneath routes. As soon as someone made a catch, they had 3 defenders in their area.
I love how violent Little is after the catch. If we can get someone to pop the top off the defense, I think Little’s YAC will jump when he only has to beat a CB (I don’t think many CB’s can take him down one on one.)
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 17, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
this got me very excited for little’s future.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 17, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’m a Little more excited than I was before…
by Poppawolf on Feb 18, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Why do you “love” violence after the catch?
I think that’s the problem with a lot of Browns fans. Too much over-hyping and idealizing players who do things non-essential to their job, like Little and his toughness after the catch and Ward and the few times he made a violent tackle. Too much praise for crap that doesn’t really make them better players.
The only way that would give Little an advantage is when he plays against CB’s like Samuel who don’t give a damn about tackling. But then in that case, is so horrible at separation that he won’t be getting the ball much in the first place.
Little is only good at crossing routes and going up against crappy LB’s. Aka all of his 2011 production
by The Licensed Pessimist on Feb 17, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you "love" violence after the catch?
It’s pretty simple. The tougher a guy is to bring down, the better it is for us. Would you prefer him to go down at the slightest breeze?
I think that’s the problem with a lot of Browns fans. Too much over-hyping and idealizing players who do things non-essential to their job,
Breaking tackles as a WR is non-essential?
The only way that would give Little an advantage is when he plays against CB’s like Samuel who don’t give a damn about tackling.
He broke more tackles than any other WR. How is this not an advantage?
Little is only good at crossing routes and going up against crappy LB’s. Aka all of his 2011 production
This is total and complete BS.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 17, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He broke more tackles than any other WR. How is this not an advantage?
Breaking tackles as a WR is non-essential?
A WR getting YAC is essential, not breaking tackles or being “violent”; which is something he didn’t do to the extreme you’re pretending he did.
Little being “violent” after the catch contributed absolutely nothing to production last year nor did it prove an exceptional YAC ability like you’re claiming, proven by the fact that he was at the bottom of the league in YAC and average.
Broken tackles for a WR are like pancakes to a OL. If those broken tackles aren’t amounting to anything, then they’re biggest use for circle jerking.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Feb 18, 2012 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
Youre having a hard time selling the fact that these attributes arent important in a WR. If we develop a downfield passing game to keep opposing D’s honest, his “violence” will transfer in even more YAC. Cause and effect. He had no separation last year because it wasnt there on underneath routes – and he still had respectable YAC numbers.
I live for Christ the KING.
Breaking tackles leads to more YAC. its simple logic. If you break a tackle, you will go farther downfield and your yards after the catch will improve.
Like I pointed out, the quality of QB play can significantly impact the YAC of a WR. Look at guys who saw a significant change in QB play between 2010 and 2011 and stayed on the same team and the same system and you will see a very strong correlation between better QB play and more YAC.
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A WR getting YAC is essential, not breaking tackles or being "violent"
If you break a tackle, you can then continue down the field, picking up, wait for it…, YAC.
I’m done with this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 18, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Other future TLPisms:
A WR getting open is essential, not having speed or being “fast.”
A WR catching the ball is essential, not having good hands or jumping ability.
A WR staying in bounds is essential, not having good footwork or awareness of the field.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, putting potential tacklers flat on their backs is “non-essential” to being a WR. Totally something you don’t want.
While you are here, could you please explain again to me why you are smarter than Bill Walsh and strength is unimportant to the WR position?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
could you please explain again to me… strength is unimportant to the WR position?
He got a lot of crap for saying that in the 1st Draft Talk thread. Never gave a reason to why he thinks that. He’s Rockland.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 18, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
He’s Rockland.
No, he’s the licensed bullish!tter.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
While you are here, could you please explain again to me why you are smarter than Bill Walsh and strength is unimportant to the WR position?
Seriously, TLP, answer that one. You got owned in another thread on that issue. Will you admit that you were just pulling that out of your arse or are you going to defend the statement?
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I think he’s decent underneath, but he isn’t a YAC guy. He’s got one of the lower yards per reception averages.
When the quarterback can’t throw more than 5 yards, that’s gonna happen.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well, was the QB stunted by playcalling, or was the playcalling stunted by the QB? And around and around and around.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 17, 2012 6:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think we should at least attempted more down field passes to stretch the field so to speak and keep them guessing….even if they aren’t successful….perhaps it was quarterback play , bad receivers all that, it just seemed at times, there was bad clock management etc… hopefully this changes with our new OC
IMO the lack of downfield passes was Colt’s inability to see where the throws need to go (conceptually). I think he lacks any anticipation in his throws and the ability to throw open a WR. Yes, we need to upgrade said WRs, but I think the O will look very different with a new QB.
I don’t know about a 3 as apposed to a 2, I think once you’re talking about anyone other than a stud receiver the numbers are a little meaningless. I think he’ll be an important part of the offense though.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 17, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
It depends on on what we add. Maybe Little is our best receiver going into the first game next season. But, personally, I’ll be disappointed in the offseason if that’s the case.
I think Little is a good #3
I don’t understand this sentiment — I think you have been listening to TLP too much. Greg Little had been out of football for a year and had a very good rookie season. In fact, only two other rookie WRs were clearly better than him. One was AJ Green who had one of the best rookie season for a Wide Receiver in history. The second was Julio Jones, a guy who some thought had more raw talent than Green.
Besides those two elite talents, Little likely was the third best rookie WR in the league*, when he had a crappy QB and had been out of football for a year. How people are not excited about that blows my mind.
*Some might argue Torrey Smith, but I think Little was better (but I have some strong biases there given the two teams involved).
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think its Green, Smith, Jones, then Little, in that order. I wasn’t impressed as much by Julio Jones.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
How in the hell could you think Little was better than Smith.
Yards 850 > 701
Drops 6 > 12
Average 16 > 11
YAC 5 > 4.1
TDs 7> 2
And Smith didn’t even play the first TWO games.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Feb 17, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
And he had 30 more targets than Smith and Julio.
So 4 more catches on the year were a result of 30 additional targets. Efficient!
by The Licensed Pessimist on Feb 17, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
because QB play has no factor…
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And Anquan Boldin taking defense’s attention away had nothing to do with it either. Neither did Ray Rice.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
very true too. He wasn’t focused like Little was.
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TDs are a stupid stat to measure receivers.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I don't always agree with Rocland.
But when I do, I’ll be denigrated for it.
by Jon @ DBN on Feb 18, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Quick word to everyone on images. Not that they’re not great, but it’s relatively easy to control image sizes.
If you’ll allow me to nerd out here:
When you click the image link on the posting box, you see this below. I’ve removed the < and the > from the beginning and end so you can see it. Anyone who has posted an image knows how to paste the image link there in the middle:
img src=“http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/598/The-Most-Interesting-Man-in-the-World.jpg”/
All you need to do to adjust the massive size of the picture is at the very end there, after .jpg" and before /, is type width=200 (replace 200 with any desired number and preview it). Then you get:
Much better, right? Nerd-out over.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 18, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Thanks, not gonna lie. Did not know how to do that.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 18, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe that should be put in the guide lines. Some of the pics can take up a lot of space here.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 18, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer to use photoshop to control my image size when I post images..generally 200 × 200 pixels are good, 150 X 150 is even better…this one is 200 X 251….the large one above is 430 by 539 pixels….I’ve never tried it your way… .nicely done
I just did it on a different thread and it’s a lot easier and quicker than editing the picture through photoshop.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 19, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Beautiful. No more passing up images because they are too large. And hopefully I’ll actually remember this tip the next time I go to post one.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
test
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
cool
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
This is how I would categorize the FA WRs
No Way He’s Available:
-Wes Welker
-DeSean Jackson
-Mike Wallace
-V. Jackson (not because of the tag, just too much competition for him, too $$$
-Colston (see V-Jax)
-D. Bowe (ditto)
Too Old: (I see H&H being devoted to a youth movement)
-Brandon Lloyd
-Reggie Wayne
-Jericho Cotchery
Meh:
-Eddie Royal
-Ted Ginn
Only for the right price, for depth:
-Robert Meachem
-Mario Manningham
-Early Doucet
Yes Please, sign that foo!
-Stevie Johnson
-Laurant Robinson
-Pierre Garcon
All of this last group is young, have shown they can produce, and still have a lot of room to grow. All of them may hopefully be available without too much of a bidding war.
I was impressed with Robinson last year, but his history scares me. His production i feel is more product of Dez and Romo. I like the upside of Garcon and Doucet for the exact reasons mentioned by Simms/Jon.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday, for an MDP today.
I’m not as high on Doucet. They needed him to step up and establish himself as a #2 across from Fitz, and he never really did. Unfortunately for them, neither did Andre Roberts, and their QB situation deteriorated.
Garcon, on the other hand was damn productive with… yeah, Curtis Painter.
I’m guessing by “history” you mean injuries for Robinson. You’re probably right to be wary given that most big names we’ve brought here either shred a knee on a freak play in minicamp or pop both patellar tendons on a routine coverage… If he stays healthy tho, he could be a real threat in the red zone at least.
I was hoping Garcon stayed under the radar a bit but I think he’s going to end up getting paid pretty well. I could see him going to Tampa, Miami or Jax.
If Tampa, Miami, or Jacksonville have a shot at signing Garcon then there’s no reason Cleveland won’t have a legitimate shot at him either.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 18, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure about Jax or Mia but TB has like a billion dollars in cap space and like browndiva said, there’s a rumor he wants to play somewhere warm. Also, the Browns is a notoriously unpopular FA destination. Whenever people get on Heckert for not going after FAs they should remember that not very many want to play here yet.
All of this.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 17, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Schefter was saying today if a team wants to give Pitt a 1st round pick they can sign wallace away by giving a huge bonus upfront counting on this years cap. I dont want the browns to do that, but I wouldnt mind seeing another team decide to bid on him.
New England would be smart to do this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 17, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
That would be fun to watch. Until we face them in the Championship game.
I live for Christ the KING.
They do have 2 first rounders.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
And the pick they would give up would be the 31st.
Makes a lot of sense for them. Front load the hell out of the deal.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 18, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
It could be 2007 all over again.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
They still have another first round pick to use on defense.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
Wallace is a great WR, well worth No. 31. However, given what the Pats have (Gronk, Welker, Hern) and how they use them, I don’t think the offense needs Wallace at all.
I mean, I see what you guys are saying, how it appears that this worked out perfectly for them only giving up No. 31 and all. The only thing, That offense is elite as is, especially if we assume they are keeping Welker.
That team needs someone to stretch the defense. The Giants weren’t scared of the Pats going deep. When a TE is your deep threat, you need some speed.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
I meant in terms of having a great deep threat and scoring 50 a game.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I understand we would be giving something to the Steelers, but why couldn’t we give the 22nd pick? Especially if what some people are reporting is true, if we can get RGIII without trading the 22 and we get Wallace for the 22nd pick… Hot damn. RGIII throwing to Wallace, Little, and whoever else? That would excite me. A lot.
what kinds of reports are you seeing that we could get rg3 w/o giving up 22?
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I know McShay said it.
I think it is very possible. We lose our second and a fourth. Just an hunch though.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
i literally could not do that deal fast enough. get rg3, keep the 22, and send out a 2 and a 4? holy cow. i feel like that’s stealing, but i’m no authority on draft-day trades. to me, it feel like you have to swap out the 2nd in your scenario for the 22.
for the record, i like your scenario way beter.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Even if the deal is what you are proposing, I’m in 100000000000000000000000000000%.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 20, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
no question. if we can send out the #4 and 2 other picks in 2012, i don’t care which picks, and bring home rg3 i do it 11 times out of 10.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 20, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree completely with these groupings of free agent WRs. I’d be most excited with Garcon, I think he would be a good value pickup to pair with our drafted WR.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 18, 2012 10:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The Saints can’t resign everyone. I’d like to Colston walk and the Brownies pitch him the TE position in Cleveland- in the same mold as Jimmy Graham. It wont be a super-strong pitch since there will be other suiters, but perhaps the pairing of RG3 will reel him in… One can dream!
by Boston Browns on Feb 17, 2012 1:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Colston is not a tight end and I think he would prefer to sign with a team that wanted to play him as a wide receiver. Call me crazy.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 18, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’d like to see Garcon, but if we end up with Kendall Wright, it’d be a little bit redundant. He’s like a slightly slower, but taller Wright.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
One could argue that IF RG3 is the QB, two such WRs would be perfect and not redundant.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 17, 2012 6:36 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think that having two receivers with the same skill set is redundant, even if you had Tom Brady, Eli, or Joe Montana at QB. I think if we get Wright we should target a different receiver like Bowe.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." -Paul Brown
by macdowellm03 on Feb 17, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Stevie Johnson, but it looks like he’s staying in Buffalo.
We need to get young guys. No super veteran WR please.
Most the WR core available for free agents can’t and won’t sign with the Browns just because we are a rebuilding team.
Football signings are almost exclusively driven by money..
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 18, 2012 3:33 AM EST up reply actions
But we would have to overpay them relative to other teams. to get them to come here. This is something Heckert has shown he won’t do. I simply don’t believe we will get any good FA’s this year. Only players who are desperate to stay in football, eg. Osama Young, will come here. I pray that one day I will be proven wrong.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Feb 18, 2012 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
well, in theory, the team that acquires a FA “overpays” relative to every other team bidding on him, no? i still reject the notion that it takes a larger overpay to attract FAs to cleveland. it seems that we never really tried last year (see: ray edwards), not that we couldn’t pay people enough to come to town.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 18, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
We will just have to disagree on the notion of the larger overpay to attract players to Cleveland. It’s possible we didn’t try last year, like with Ray Edwards, but I say that we should have. It’s also possible that the FO did try to get other free agents but failed. Rather than admit failure and embarrassment, maybe they covered up, saying they didn’t try. Perhaps they couldn’t admit no-one wanted to play here. It would be psychologically deflating for the team and fans.
Once again, I hope I’m proven wrong this year.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Feb 18, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps they couldn’t admit no-one wanted to play here. It would be psychologically deflating for the team and fans.
This seems fairly likely but more likely is that good teams build through the draft, not free agency. How much did Ray Edwards help the Falcons? Well they would be picking 5 spots earlier if we didn’t hold their pick.
All I know is that we have plenty of options this offseason, and there should be no excuse for us not to make a great improvement heading into the 2012 season. Building on a small WR foundation we have has to be priority #1 for this team. I’m still in favor of keeping Colt as our starter at least one more season with more WR/RB talent and better protection, but the same goes for Griffin if we draft him or any other QB we could pick up through FA. This team will not succeed without some sort of NFL caliber talent – that of which we do not have.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 18, 2012 1:29 AM EST reply actions
A better QB immediately makes the entire offense better.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 18, 2012 3:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True, but if you’re going to try to persuade me that a rookie in Griffin or a one-night wonder in Flynn is a better QB than McCoy then I would suggest not even trying.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 18, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
If we take Griffin, so be it. I’m tired of this QB carousel we’ve created in Cleveland, but with all the hype he gets then give him a shot if Colt can’t improve in 2012. However, if we sign Flynn to be our starter I’ll be mortified.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 18, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
There’s been a carousel because none of them have been any damn good (except Tim Couch); agree on Flynn.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
I won’t be upset with Flynn (depending on the contract), but I won’t be excited by it either. I’m willing to give him a chance, but then we’re really just back to where we were before this season with Colt.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
This team will not succeed without some sort of NFL caliber talent
Colt is not NFL caliber talent, hence much of the problem.
I'm entitled to my opinion. Especially if I'm wrong.
by Aussie Brown on Feb 18, 2012 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Simply not true. Now if he is starting QB material. I think given the time and resources around him (mainly on O line) he will turn out to be very good. Unfortunately for us Browns fans it may not be on the Browns.
"There's a gleem"
by ol skol dawg on Feb 18, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
the OL is fine! Im tired of this argument. We are 1 player (a RT with mobility and less injury risk) away from having a top 5 OL. the QB needs to not hold the ball for 5 sec and he needs to take some measured risk with his throws. He doesnt see the field and where the WR will break open. That is the biggest issue with Colt. He tries to wait until the WR is wide open to make a throw and he gets sacked/pressured because of it. Maybe he learns how this happens, but Id rather look for a guy who can.
RG and RT both need to be upgraded. RG might be okay, but I would feel more comfortable with more talent there. LG should be good if we get Steinbach back in good health, but here pretty soon we should be looking for better talent there also. Our O-line always seems to get beat up pretty bad aside from the Lord himself. It always seems like it’s a work in progress with our O-line.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 18, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Pinky is a solid starter. He will be a starter. Steinbach may be healthy enough to get back if not I strongly believe that Greco is the other G. So RT is the only thing I see keeping this OL from being a top OL in the NFL. Pashos is decent, but he is always hurt making his footwork questionable (that ankle injury all year) and hes just slow. And again, I cannot stress how QB play really effects the perceived effectiveness of the OL. Better QB play will make the OL look better. Period. and having a QB being able to recognize the blitz will immensely help the O. Just looking at Colt you can see he doesnt do this the majority of the time.
the biggest issue is because Colt hangs onto the ball for too long, he needs a top 5 O-Line. most O-Lines cannot block consistently for 6-7 seconds, but he takes a long time to get rid of the ball.
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I gotta do some more research on Robinson, but I like the idea of Garcon on our team. Other than that, maybe Meachem or Doucet for some depth.
I dont think we’ll get him but I think Desean Jackson is the best out here period. Only other I would make the case for would be Welker, in a completely different but equally awesome way. I dont like the ego crap but D Jax is a serious playmaker. Gamechanger.
I live for Christ the KING.
I don’t think he’s worth it. Not only just the attitude problem, but because I just don’t see how he’ll make that big of an impact when we still can’t stretch the field.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 18, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I like Garcon as well. If we get RHIII it makes sense to grab Wright as well. Norwood and Cribbs would be good to hang onto as well. Would we need Gin for returns if we make Cribbs a full time receiver I wonder?
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
Robot Wars: RG111 vs. RHIII
Special guest referee: R2D2
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Feb 18, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I just watched all 6 Star Wars episodes from The Phantom Menace through The Return of the Jedi within the past couple days. It was glorious.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 19, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Those first 5 and a half hours must have been brutal on you.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hell yeah. I don’t even consider the 3 new ones as part of the Star Wars saga.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 19, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
It’s better than the expanded universe stuff that included Ziro the Hutt, Jabba’s Gay pirate uncle
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
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I always go back to the last time our offense looked potent when I think about our WR needs. The big difference between 2007 and 08 was Joe Jurevicus, those 50 catches, while not impressive statistically and when compared to Edwards and Winslow, were the catches that kept the offense on the field and in scoring position. A big guy with good hands and great body control made Derek Anderson look like a competent QB. Without him, adding Stallworth was fail, out the gate.
Now, it’s more like our offense has too many Jurevicus and not enough stretch the field. So if we go FA for a WR I’m really only interested in a guy that has shown he can catch the deep ball consistently (I’m looking for a stat site that will break down catch rate by YPA). I think Meachem, Manningham, Garcon, and S. Johnson could fit that bill but want to take a closer look.
Anderson was the difference in 2007. The guy played out of his mind for half a season. It’s ok to admit that Derek Anderson was very good for a stretch of games.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Not the whole team played out their heads that year! As much as peeps wanna hang it all on the QB position it is a team sport!
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
Look, you can believe a number 3 receiver playing well was more important than the QB playing well if you want, but I think that’s crazy.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 18, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I would agree that it was an overstatement to say that Anderson only looked good b/c of WR play; wasn’t trying to open a discussion of 2007. I will say that it seemed like whenever our offense was in a tough 3rd down situation it seemed like Jurevicus was the guy making the catch and those weren’t often on the hands and between the numbers. My larger point was more that our offense was last productive when we had legit vertical threat, a very good receiving option at TE, a physical, possession receiver, and a power RB.
We have most of those pieces now. In terms of the WRs available in FA and the draft, I am interested in discerning which one has had the best deep ball production.
by Mal Reynolds on Feb 20, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
adding Stallworth was fail, out the gate
He didn’t even get out of the gate. Didn’t he miss the first four games with a quad injury and then several more to hammy problems?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
trying to think of something witty to add here but I’ll just lol.
by Mal Reynolds on Feb 20, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
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