Why Matt Flynn won't be a Brown
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 18, 2012 9:05 PM EST
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PrintI keep reading that the Browns should be in on Matt Flynn.
It's not going to happen.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully entrenched in the camp that believes we need a new Quarterback. But it's not Flynn. I don't know if Flynn is going to be the next Drew Brees or the next Matt Cassel or Matt Schuab.
But I do know that the Browns should not be winning the Matt Flynn derby.
Matt Flynn has thrown a combined 132 passes in his NFL career. That's pretty much all the Browns, Redskins, Seahawks, etc. have to go on. That's all they know. They can look at preseason tape, but that won't get them very far.
But I didn't list one team: Miami Dolphins. They know more than any other team not named the Green Bay Packers.
Of course, the reasoning is that they hired former Green Bay Packers offensive coordinator Joe Philbin. This is the only OC that Matt Flynn has ever worked with in the NFL. The guy who turned Flynn from a 7th round, 3rd string back-up into the hottest free agent QB this off-season. In perfect symmetry, the Dolphins also need a Quarterback. Don't be fooled by the mirage of Matt Moore. He already screwed the Panthers once, the Dolphins are in the hunt for a QB. They have already made this very clear.
So why does this matter to the Browns?
It's simple, if Matt Flynn is any good, he will be a Miami Dolphin. They have money, his coach, his offense and a starting opportunity. Why would he come to Cleveland over what he would have in Miami? If the Dolphins want him, he is going to be a fish mammal.
No doubt about it. If Joe Philbin, the guy who has handcrafted Flynn into the Quarterback he is now, doesn't sign him, that should set off every alarm possible. We should run in the other direction as fast as possible.
It's that simple. If he is any good, we won't be able to bring him in. If we can bring him in, we shouldn't want him.
So the next time you hear someone say "we should sign Matt Flynn!", tell them that if we do sign Flynn, we are already screwed.
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Here, Hear!
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 18, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions
Or my favorite Spockism… “I estimate your chances of being correct in your analysis at 7.62844 to 1!”
Brownsyup
Never Tell me the Odds!!
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by bross09 on Feb 19, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
A Star Trek/Star Wars crossover quote…yikes.
by Chief WaDrew on Feb 19, 2012 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Dawgs By Nature – A Cleveland Browns Blog The Internet – Where Dorks are King.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I like your analysis. I was kind of thinking that the Fins might want to stick with Matt Moore. He had some very good games last year. The other reason that the Fins might not take Flynn is because of Matt Moore. The Dolphins with Moore at the helm were 6-7 but that doesn’t tell the whole story. They lost their first 4 games that Moore started. If you excuse those as “getting used to the system” or “new QB jitters”, his record in the last 9 games was 6-2. Moore’s numbers were pretty decent in those games. I’d be willing to give McCoy another year if he’d have finished out the season as well as Moore… well, then again, maybe not.
But having said that, when a team gets new coaching there is often a shuffling of the players and I guess you could say that Moore has not decisively won the position. I wonder what they are saying about this over on the Dolphins SB site? I’d be arguing against Flynn I think as I’m not convinced he has the consistency or track record to replace Moore.
Brownsyup
Great food for thought, but you’re overlooking one major detail. Actually, 13 to 14 million details. That’s the amount further under the projected salary cap the Browns are compared to the Dolphins. The Browns have the ammo to win a bidding war if they choose, and as we know far too well in Cleveland, when it comes to free agency – money talks. If Flynn could make a couple of million a year more – or say six million more garunteed over the life of a contract as a Brown – do you think he’d choose Miami for familiarity with a coach?
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
If the Dolphins think he is a franchise QB, they will easily find the money.
You don’t think Brandon Marshall would be willing to move some money around to get a good QB in Miami?
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
not that easy to find other money when you need help in other places as much as Miami does. Why reach when they have Moore?
by 27BUCKEYE27 on Feb 19, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Why reach when they have Moore?
Because Matt Moore is not a franchise QB. That is a position where you absolutely cannot accept mediocrity.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Are you suggesting Flynn is better than mediocre?
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 19, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
might be the only one who knows outside of mike mccarthy and aaron rodgers … and mccarthy and rodgers ain’t talking.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if he is or not. I suspect he is strictly mediocre, but if the Dolphins staff thinks he is better, they should most definitely go after him, regardless of Moore.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Most front offices’s around the league agree that it takes 3-5 years before you really know if a QB is going to be a franchise QB
No, it takes 3-5 years to become a franchise QB. You can know if that’s going to happen much sooner.
by HenryDawg on Feb 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FYI Matt Moore’s QB rating of 87.1 ranked ahead of Cam Newton. Kid has not been in league only 3 years and only QB in NFL with higher rating and same experience is Matthew Stafford. Not too bad being ranked #12 in entire NFL with only 24 games under his belt. ALOT better than the #27 ranked Colt McCoy
This would be moore’s 6th season in the league.
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Thank you.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
moore is a solid backup. He is not a franchise QB though. To yoru comment below about how he is ranked 12th in the NFL and mccoy was worse, you have to consider the situation. moore was coming off the bench. moore is very solid when he is asked to be a spot starter at QB and start a handful of games.
He did the same thing in 2009 and played out of his mind. Then, when he won the starting job in 2010, he was god awful. This is really a case of a guy who is very good when people aren’t gameplanning a ton against him.
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This is a great point about coming off the bench vs. being a full time starter. There is so much more pressure being a named starting QB and we’ve seen it before in the past so often that a backup with no pressure can come in and shine, but under the pressure of winning as a starter just wilt.
you know, Derek Anderson wasn’t the opening day QB. And by the end of the season, teams seemed to have the book on him. Plus, he was solid as a backup the year before, so…
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you know, Derek Anderson wasn’t the opening day QB. And by the end of the season, teams seemed to have the book on him. Plus, he was solid as a backup the year before, so…
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you know, Derek Anderson wasn’t the opening day QB. And by the end of the season, teams seemed to have the book on him. Plus, he was solid as a backup the year before, so…
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for raining on the parade.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
You realize that Matt Moore will be 28 years old this season right?
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Like us, they are a team with a bad record that doesn’t have a ton of needs. In fact, theirs are pretty much the same as ours. QB, RT, Pass rusher, FS. If somehow they can keep Paul Solai and get Flynn, they are find and can get a good rush LB in the 1st and use the rest of their picks to shore up the O-Line and get depth and a FS.
moore isn’t that great and QB is still their biggest need.
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A. Matt Moore sucks.
B. Other franchises realize that other positions don’t matter when you need a QB. It’s something that some fan bases need to figure out.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I just noticed your signature, and will now rec every one of your comments accordingly.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Feb 19, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
The same.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If it gets him a QB I bet he would. The better he looks, the more money he gets.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100% DaveDawg. Money talkes and if he chooses the Browns it wont be because the Dolphins didnt want him but because the Browns were able to offer more $$$
by 27BUCKEYE27 on Feb 19, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
You are missing the point. If the Dolphins think he is a franchise QB, they won’t allow Flynn to go anywhere else.
If they do allow him to sign elsewhere, he isn’t worth it.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
T.H.I.S.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
This is a good assessment of the situation. Whether or not it’s true is unpredictable, but I’m hoping Heckert and Holmgren aren’t stupid enough to fall victim to Flynn’s one-game heroics.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 19, 2012 1:12 AM EST reply actions
Good and logical points, but an overly simplistic analysis:
1. I think you’re underestimating the power of money, if someone makes Flynn a better offer, he’ll go there. There are plenty of teams who could easily outbid the Dolphins regardless of how many contracts the Fins restructure.
2. There’s also been a good deal of talk about Peyton being a good fit in Miami if he hits FA, he’ll write his ticket and Flynn will be left in the cold.
3. A first year head coach may not get to choose his QB, Jeff Ireland does what he wants with personnel, no way Philban gets final say on the roster. Ireland may love Moore for all we know.
The point is I just listed 3 quick scenarios in which the Dolphins don’t take Flynn for reasons other than Philban’s insider rejection of him.
even if he can be offered more money by us and is offered more money by us, he may go to miami. The ability to succeed speaks very loudly too. Guys have often gone to teams in free agency where the people running the team run the exact same or similar offense to what they were running. Philbin makes it very likely Flynn could take less $ to go to miami.
If Peyton goes, that does cloud things, but I honestly think he goes somewhere else.
Point 3 is intriguing, but if Philbin has more “inside info” on Flynn, he can show Ireland he may be the real deal. A lot easier to convince a gm a player is the real deal when you coached them for several years.
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I really think if Peyton gets released he is going to end up in Houston. Championship caliber D, solid running game, and a chance to stick it to the Colts twice a year. Schaub would be a decent trade chip as well.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 19, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see them trading Schaub. The only way that would make sense for the Texans is the idea that they are stealing a player from a rival, and no team is going to alienate their franchise QB for that purpose.
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Money talks in FA, but occasionally you’ll find a player who would rather play with a better team for less than a worse team for more. Nnamdi took less money going to Philly last season.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 19, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Allow me to try and explain:
1) If the Dolphins believe that Flynn is a legit starting QB, they won’t be outbid. That is a franchise that understands what a good Quarterback can do.
2) I don’t think Peyton would go to Miami. I think he is a Jet. Always have, and will until he signs somewhere else.
3) If Ireland doesn’t get the input from Philbin, then he is a complete idiot. Philbin won’t have final say on the roster, but he will have a say. Ireland doesn’t love Moore, the Fins front office has already said they are looking for a Quarterback.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I will expand on #2.
I have a much easier time believing a defensive minded HC allowing a player to walk in and redo the entire offensive system; rather than an offensive coordinator turned HC, allowing a player to come in and change everything that he has done his entire career.
Ryan doesn’t care about his offensive scheme as long as they will win. Philbin on the other hand will be asked to change everything he has known as a coach.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the philosophy that Miami is the frontrunner for Flynn at this point for a lot of reasons, (the new HC, the WCO, the WR’s already in place). However I do think that Philbin would take Peyton in a heartbeat if he’s healthy.
Peyton runs a hybrid WCO, Rogers and the Pack audible a good deal as well. Philbin will be familiar with the system and as a first year HC and a new QB there won’t be a power struggle. This will be mutually benficial beginning together.
I don’t see Peyton going to the drama of the Jets. Their only viable WR is Holmes. Their LT is questionable, and most importantly… they will have a VERY hard time affording it.
I didn’t watch D’Brickshaw this year, but isn’t he at least a good LT?
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Yes.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
From the article
Offensive line stats can be tricky.
Another potential factor is that the Jets passed the ball more than they have in recent seasons.
Ferguson probably deserves some slack. It’s unrealistic to think he’s going to hold the best pass rushers the NFL has to offer to two sacks every season.
Expect Ferguson to bounce back in a big way.
There is certainly nothing to suggest that their LT situation is “questionable”. At the very most, it’s uncertain whether he will just be great like in 2010, or middle of the road like in 2011.
From PFF in December about Ferguson:
D’Brickashaw Ferguson (+6.0 pass block) hasn’t been as elite as in past years, but recently has stepped up his play. He has allowed just one sack and seven pressures over the past four games
He had 2 sacks allowed in 2010 and its hard for any player to repeat that over and over. His season is not bad for a LT, but probably around average. He was in fact ranked by PFF as their 12th best pass blocking LT.
You are right their RT situation is awful. Wayne Hunter was just terrible. But the 2nd worst player on their line was Slauson and it’s hard for Ferguson to look good when the guy next to him is just blowing assignments left and right.
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you win…he’s average, with some bad pieces around him… exactly what Peyton is looking for in an O-line
exactly what Peyton is looking for in an O-line
That’s about what the Redskins have and the Dolphins. No team that is rumored to be after Peyton has an elite line. When D’Brickshaw is on, they probably have the best of the bunch. He had a down year in 2011, but was ranked the 3rd best LT in pass blocking by PFF between 2008 and 2010.
He might want a line full of All-Pros, but none of the teams that may actually have this. If Ferguson bounces back to being a top 5 LT, that is easily the best situation for him. Brandon moore made the pro bowl last year and is a solid RG and mangold is a great C.
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I honestly still think you are overrating Ferguson who clearly struggled at times this year… but you’re right the Jets line is not really that bad, i was being facetious.. however, the Colts didn’t have a great line at times… Peyton’s so good at avoiding hits and releasing the ball early it’s not as big of an issue as it is with other QB’s…. however, the position I know he cares alot about is LT… i think the Dolphins have the clear leg up in that respect, and the better WR and RB situation to boot… throw in the Rex Ryan drama which you gotta think Peyton has no interest in… AND that i doubt he wants to compete for media attention in NY with his brother… i say if he’s available the Fins are his best option
however, the Colts didn’t have a great line at times
Correct. Ferguson even in a down year is better than Tony Ugoh or Charlie Johnson.
The Dolphins do have the better LT, but I would say it was a tossup if you don’t include Ferguson’s poor 2011 and look at previous work. Plus, I think their overall O-Line is better. miami is certainly an option, but they may go Flynn because of familiarity.
Another reason he might not go to miami is having to answer to an offensive-minded HC with his own scheme. Rex is a defensive guy, that may actually help them get Peyton.
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I love the Brick, but Jake Long is clearly better
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am talking pure pass blocking and I think Long is better, but there isn’t a huge gap based on their play (minus Brick’s bad 2011). Long is superior in run blocking however, but I was only looking at pass blocking.
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He might want a line full of All-Pros
Did not know that Peyton Manning was a Browns fan and regular commenter at Cleveland.com!
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That’s about what he had with the Colts, and that didn’t seem to be a problem.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
and allow me to expand on #3:
ireland and philbin have already had this discussion. they’ve already basically made this decision. when philbin was interviewing and prior to him being hired, he and ireland effectively settled this issue. it was probably in the first hour of the first interview that ireland said, “so, what do you think of matt moore?” and, shortly thereafter, “now tell me about flynn”.
if philbin told ireland, “i think matt flynn is way better than matt moore and we need to go get matt flynn on this team,” and ireland disagreed then philbin would not be the coach in miami. very simple.
so, my analysis is that if the dolphins don’t go get flynn then that means that the miami gm and flynn’s former coach agreed that matt moore is better than matt flynn … and i don’t want the browns spending any money on someone who is not as good as matt moore.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Slow clap….
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and if they sign him? or make a run at him? still clapping?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t want Matt Flynn. At all.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really? I couldnt tell. :D
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Good for them?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
doesn’t prove nothing…. i’m sure ireland and the ownership’s decision to hire Philbin really hinged on the evaluation of one FA QB … i’m pretty sure they could disagree on this issue and he could still get hired… if Ireland wasn’t feeling Flynn, Philbin sure as heck wouldn’t put an ultimatum down and risk losing his shot as a head coach
If the GM and HC don’t agree on the direction of the Quarterback position, I would assume he wouldn’t be the HC.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
I would love the Browns QB situation handled BEFORE the draft, then how much fun could that draft be, and how many holes could we fill?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
I am sure your next post will be Why we shouldnt take Kevin Kolb, or Why we shouldnt let Colt McCoy have another year in the WCO….your RG3 infatuation (obsession?) is clouding these posts. ;)
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 4:38 AM EST up reply actions
This team needs a Quarterback. I want to leave the NFL draft with a Quarterback. A walking, talking, breathing, living Quarterback. Until we get that, we will spend every season looking forward to next season’s draft and free agency.
Kevin Kolb isn’t the answer. Colt McCoy isn’t the answer (see below). We have a chance to get a top prospect at the toughest position without strip mining next years draft. Why is everyone not on board?
Here is my open challenge: If anyone can give me concrete, solid proof on why Colt McCoy should get another season, I will eat this keyboard.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I would actually be very interested in your viewpoints on Kolb. I’m in the camp that he has been bred to be a WCO QB and is now in a vertical system that he’ll never be able to succeed in. He was also injured down the stretch. I would think about giving up a 2nd or 3rd rounder on him. I’d prefer him to Flynn honestly, especially if H&H aren’t sold on RGIII
I would think any good QB would be able to adapt from a WCO to a vertical attack throwing to Larry Ftiz without looking absolutely terrible.
Kolb doesn’t pass the smell test.
His coach traded him. His former GM didn’t him enough to match the price of Arizona. I think the dude sucks.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His coach traded him. His former GM didn’t him enough to match the price of Arizona.
Neither of those are good reasons. We were not going to match Arizona’s offer as we had too many needs and there was at least some hope Colt could develop. As for Andy trading him, again, unique situation — Vick had a phenomenal season (in Andy’s words, “played out of his mind”) and Andy had the opportunity to get a ton of value for Kolb, which he did. It was a no-brainer.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that, but it’s not like the Browns had a ton invested in McCoy at the time. If Heckert was ga-ga for the guy, I think he would have been all over the deal.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i’m with you on the reid point, but if you buy into the “get a qb at all costs” then the fact that heckert didn’t compete for kolb is, indeed, telling.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
The valid reason is that Kolb just isn’t that good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Bingo!
He will have a fantastic post-football career slinging his own fragrance line:
“Hype!… for man-children.”
by Mal Reynolds on Feb 21, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hadn’t realized Colt McCoy was a zombie now.
Honor. Courage. Commitment.
by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 19, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
LOL RED-RIGHT I thought the same thing when I read the post
by 27BUCKEYE27 on Feb 19, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
:) I am sure it will be coming.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
We shouldn’t get Kolb because he isn’t any good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Feb 19, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He played pretty damn well for the Eagles. Arizona was a completely new system for him. If H&H go after him, I will defer to their opinion.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
i actually like kolb. i would be ok w/ him as our qb, but i prefer drafting rg3.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
think if we trade down, what washington would give..
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Why would Washington give us anything if the Browns aren’t going to take him?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 9:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
so they can guarantee getting him, Miami, even TB might do something or anyone that needs a QB
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Then why aren’t they trading with the Rams? Why did all those teams let him fall to the Browns if they needed him?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 9:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
He played decently for the Eagles, who haven’t started a QB who has done worse in 15 years. I mean didn’t Jeff Garcia lead them to the playoffs one year?
Kolb had .2 ANY/A more in his best year (2009, in which Kolb had less than 100 attempts) than Vick had in his down year (last year).
Two different staffs have passed on the guy, and he’s not exactly young. I just don’t think he’s that good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
again, we have seen almost nothing from him… Kolb had half a season as a starter in a new offensive system that isn’t particularly suited to him… blanket statements like this are misleading and unhelpful
If he’s not good enough to adapt to a new system, maybe he just isn’t a good NFL QB.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
maybe he’s not, but the reason McCoy is still even being considered is that he has potential to fit our offensive system… he’d be a disaster in a vertical passing game.. it’s a bigger deal than you guys are making it
McCoy has the potential to be a good backup. That’s my opinion. Your opinion is that he has the potential to fit in our system. Neither of those opinions mean he is being considered by H,H, & S to be the QBotF, none of us know that except maybe Mooncamping. I’m pretty damn sure Moon is Heckert.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
mccoy may be best as a backup I think.
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The reason McCoy is being considered is because he’s on our roster and because we invested a 3rd round pick in him. The fit and the “system” are not as big of deals as you are making them out to be.
The “system” is more about the way we prepare and organize practices than it is about any set of passing plays. Shurmur has vertical pass plays in the playbook, and he has shorter pass plays in the playbook. He’ll run what he thinks will give our team the best chance to win. That is, he’ll run what best suits our strengths as an offense and attacks the defense in areas where they are weaker than us.
Philly and Green Bay both run something very similar to our offense and they both go deep (because they can and are good at it). There were games last year when we went deep often as well.
We will always run some classic WCO triangle stretch concepts, but everyone in the NFL runs those. The system will adjust—must adjust—to our players’ strengths and opponents’ weaknesses.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Totally disagree… the WCO is more than “a way to prep and organize practice”… it’s got its own language, it’s own plays, it’s a paradigm for these guys… notice that Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmer, and Chidress were all brought up in WCO schemes and are “WCO” guys… we wouldn’t pick key personnel based on what you’re describing our offense to be….
our offense is based on Bill Walsh’s original version of the WCO… short, horizontal passing game that hinges on pre-snap reads, accurate throws, quick QB drops… the defense focusing on these shorter passes opens up vertical passing lanes … of course we adapt to what the defense gives us.. but we have core offensive concepts as well… Philly and GB set up their vertical plays, something we just couldn’t do with our play
Colt sucked at pre-snap reads, his accuracy was average to poor at times, his footwork was okay… these were things that we was suppose to excel at and the exact skills a WCO QB needs… and the reason Colt was drafted by us … a 3rd rounder who doesn’t pan out is an every day occurrence in the NFL not a reason
Hi, you must be new here. I’m kind of aware of how our offense works and what it does. I’m pretty well aware of Bill Walsh’s thoughts on offense as well. Have you read Finding the Winning Edge? If so it doesn’t seem like you’ve digested it fully.
“The way we prepare” is exactly the paradigm that you are strawmanning me into not knowing about. That extends into everything the organization does. Anyone who simply tries to replicate the plays Walsh ran would be missing the point—its not about the plays, its about the methodology…which is exactly my point.
Every offense “hinges” on pre-snap reads and accurate throws. As for “quick QB drops”…no. Not necessarily. Walsh’s genius was aligning QB drops with WR routes. His preference was the 3- and 5-step game, but it was about which routes required 1 big, 2 quick vs. the 3 quickest you can take, or 5 big and a hitch versus the 5 quickest you can take with a rhythm throw. Its about paying attention to the subtlety of details, and coordinating the big picture with the finest of details. Its about coordination, in many senses. Which exact plays we run is largely a product of what we are good at running, not some phoney Platonic ideal of what football should be (e.g. a lot of short passes).
Philly and GB set up their vertical plays, something we just couldn’t do with our play
…right. Because our players weren’t very good at doing it, save a few games…which is why our offense wasn’t based around the deep ball.
a 3rd rounder who doesn’t pan out is an every day occurrence in the NFL not a reason
Strawman.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Feb 21, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I may be new here but you seem to be new at conversation…i think we’re missing each other… plus i’m really not a fan of your condescending post there
you said, and i quote, “The "system" [WCO] is more about the way we prepare and organize practices”
I said the WCO is an offensive paradigm based on walsh’s original offense. It’s undeniably more than a way to organize and plan practices. I gave some super brief examples of some of its general play features. Thanks for expounding on the WCO I guess.
you then decided that the WCO is a methodology… a synonym to the paradigm including the “WCO only” personnel hiring we do. You essentially agreed with my main point while denying it.
Yes I know what a WCO is, and it seems like you do too, which very much surprises me that you have a hard time admitting that Colt was drafted because he (and his skill set) was a potential “fit” with this “methodology” or “paradigm” or whatever you want to call it.
And finally you said Colt is here because he’s a 3rd round investment, I said no,my point is that a 3rd rounder is never around for 3 years b/c of the investment, hardly strawman.
:Fatality
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 21, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
If you aren’t a fan of me, I may suggest you become a fan of Buffalo.
And I don’t really have time to give you a football history lesson, but I’ll give you a Walsh quote:
Teams which attempt to adopt the “West Coast Offense” and to duplicate its success solely by copying the schematics and the blocking schemes are taking a fragmented approach to installing such a system
Here’s another just to ensure that I really get the point across:
I have been afforded the experience that allowed us to conceive an offense, a defense, and a system of football that is basically a matter of rehearsing what we do prior to the game.
If you don’t like it from me, take it straight from the horse’s mouth.
Walsh definitely impacted the game with terminology (though like many things in “West Coast” offenses terminology has evolved differently in different systems), but it was his through nature of making gametime decisions ahead of time, and working back from those decisions to practices and training camps—so yes, organizing and planning practices—and managing risk in such a profound way that was revolutionary.
Shannahan/Kubiak run a different West Coast Offense than Reid, who runs a different West Coast Offense than Holmgren, who ran a different one than Walsh…in terms of which plays you actually run there is no “the” West Coast Offense.
For further reading:
Link
Link
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Feb 21, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
(shrinkage)
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 21, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
The second team in two years is trying to replace him.
Sometimes a dude just sucks.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is absolutely not misleading: Kolb just isn’t that good.
Sorry I didn’t feel like writing a front page article explaining why Kolb just isn’t that good, including breaking down his film for you. Maybe I’ll do that for our offense a little deeper into the offseason.
See my comment above regarding ANY/A if you want a little insight as to why I don’t think Kolb is that good.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Why we shouldnt take Kevin Kolb, or Why we shouldnt let Colt McCoy have another year in the WCO
These would be excellent, accurate posts.
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Feb 19, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Misconception that our priority should be a quarterback in the draft.
We need offensive lineman, receiver, and linebacker. Obtaining a stud lineman or two, like a Thomas, will open holes for Hillis, give Colt time to make his reads and go through his progressions, and give receivers time to get open.
In the 80s we took the slowest quarterback in NFL history, and we put him behind a great offensive line. This offensive line gave this slow quarterback time to drop back, make his reads, and go through his progressions. This slow quarterback turned out to be one of the best in Browns history. This line also opened holes for Byner and Mack. In other words, the offensive line made that offense, and not the other way around. Imagine the success that the Browns would have enjoyed had Byner, Mack, and Kosar played behine the offensive line that Colt has played behind.
They also need a WR who can spread defenses, and a quick, mean, nasty linebacker this year. To those pushing for a trade up for a quarterback in the draft I urge you to please look at the big picture. Teams have won the superbowl with mediocre quarterbacks, but a great line. I know of no team that has won a superbowl with a great quarterback, but a weak offensive line. In fact, there is no such thing.
This is all predicated on Colt have the ability (not opportunity) to
drop back, make his reads, and go through his progressions.
Without any indication that he can do these things better than he has so far – and I don’t care how damn good your line is when the blitz is on – the only thing left to do is start looking for a replacement.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
You do know we used multiple high round picks to get Kosar right?
by HenryDawg on Feb 19, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Great point — we traded two firsts, a third and sixth. A lot of freaking picks.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
that is such an awesome pull. 1 point for you.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
The Packers won it all last year with a great QB and a less-than-stellar O-line. I understand the nostalgia for Browns history, but its a different game now. You need an elite QB.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 19, 2012 4:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Kosar could still play in this NFL. He was elite before he sustained some bad injuries.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
I’m trying to figure out why we have to choose? We already have the best LT of all time. We can have a great QB and a great O Line.
A running theme among the “don’t draft RG3” crowd is the misconception that the draft is one round and there is no free agency. Therefore, if we draft him, his line will be made up of volunteers off the street and he’ll be throwing to retired schoolteachers.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 9:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 4 recs
and apparently there will never be another draft, either. if we trade picks and get rg3 we will quite literally never be able to acquire another player by any means. ever.
i can see why that would make some people nervous…
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I havent seen anyone here say this. Plenty of WR FA’s this year.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
If you are going to be a first time poster here and haven’t been lurking, please go back and read previous threads so we don’t have to repeat everything.
Last to SB Winning QBs had mediocre (at best) lines. Rarely do mediocre QBs win SBs, it’s always the elite ones, and usually QBs taken high in the draft.
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is it mediocre QBs rarely win the SB or Its always the elite ones?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
mediocre QBs winning SBs are an aberration. For all intents and purposes, the guys who win SBs are elite QBs.
Counting Dilfer as saying “well, you can win a SB with a mediocre QB” is like saying “Well, Tom Brady was a 6th rounder…let’s draft a 6th rounder because they might be a future HOFer”. Both are huge anomalies.
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brad johnson…jim plunkett….doug williams…trent dilfer…but we have rehashed this so many times on this board…heck rex grossman got a team to the SB.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Brad Johnson — His coach knew the entire offense of the opposing team.
Jim Plunkett — A very good QB.
Doug Williams — Had a fanastic postseason and played at an exceptional level at that time.
Trent Dilfer — Rule, I would like to introduce you to the exception.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
I also think 3/4 were also first round picks (not positive, but don’t care enough to look it up, your points should be enough to dismiss that argument)
I don’t know about Williams or Plunkett, but I’m pretty sure at least the other two were first round picks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Johnson wasn’t but Plunkett and Williams were.
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Plunkett was the first overall pick. One of three Stanford QBs to be that — and likely a fourth coming down the pike.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 20, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
So out of 92 QBs you were able to pick out one actual mediocre QB? Three of those are pretty far from mediocre.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 20, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
The problem is, 3 of those four were good QBs.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 20, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Plunket was 30 years ago now. He was a high draft pick, but he’s irrelevant to this conversation because the league hadn’t yet truly started to change into a passing league.
Williams was having an extremely good season, was immensely talented, and very hot during 1987 and throughout the playoffs.
Dilfer: Exception
Brad Johnson wasn’t great, but not mediocre. He was a 2-time Pro Bowler and made the Pro Bowl during the year he won a SB. He only played 13 games but still had a QBR over 90 and threw for over 3,000 yards.
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From what I read, as of Nov of last year, he’s ranked 37th amongst retired players in QBR. Take it with a grain of salt though because I read it on the infallible.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 20, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Brad Johnson that is…
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 20, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
He gets a bad rap, but he was a pretty good QB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Wikipedia was close. It was 38th on football-reference. I do believe you have to take into account that he played at a time of high octane offenses, so I look at QB Rating+ (which is similar to OPS+ as it’s a comparison to the league average during that period).
In this stat, he compares to Phil Simms, Both had a couple great seasons and made a couple pro bowls, but spent most of his career as just a solid QB. Both also won a SB.
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Either way, I wouldn’t call them mediocre.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 20, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Right, they are clearly good quarterbacks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
exactly. I just got really interested in who had a similar career to Brad Johnson.
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Obtaining a stud lineman or two, like a Thomas
Impossible.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
There is only one god.
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by bross09 on Feb 19, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So. Much. Wrong.
I stopped reading after calling Kosar “slow” — I don’t think you know what “slow” means here. If by running times, yes, definitely. But that’s not what is important to a QB who needs to make quick decisions, quick reads, and quick throws. Kosar could do all that. See also Dan Marino.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
This
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he was referring to how he forms spoken sentences.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 9:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
Nice.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
The word for that is “slurred.”
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Obtaining a stud lineman or two
We already have three.
will open holes for Hillis
I don’t think they’ve had a problem opening holes for Hillis. He’s a beast who can get two yards where others (HardIcedTea, Ogboogeymannaya) would lose a couple.
give Colt time to make his reads and go through his progressions
He already has all damn day as it is. No QB is going to get ten seconds to drop back and make his reads every time the ball is snapped. Our O-line is infinitely better than you give them credit for.
and give receivers time to get open.
All. Damn. Day.
In the 80s we took the slowest quarterback in NFL history, and we put him behind a great offensive line. This offensive line gave this slow quarterback time to drop back, make his reads, and go through his progressions. This slow quarterback turned out to be one of the best in Browns history. This line also opened holes for Byner and Mack. In other words, the offensive line made that offense, and not the other way around. Imagine the success that the Browns would have enjoyed had Byner, Mack, and Kosar played behine the offensive line that Colt has played behind.
So wait. I don’t get it. We have an awful line that can’t open up holes or pass pro long enough to make a read or for a WR to get open, but they’re better than the line that you give sole credit for our offensive prowess during the Kosar era?
They also need a WR who can spread defenses
Hey, we do agree on something!
, and a quick, mean, nasty linebacker this year.
I’d much, much, much rather see us go after a DE and a FS if we are going to pick defensive players this year. I’m hoping for an offense heavy draft.
To those pushing for a trade up for a quarterback in the draft I urge you to please look at the big picture. Teams have won the superbowl with mediocre quarterbacks, but a great line. I know of no team that has won a superbowl with a great quarterback, but a weak offensive line. In fact, there is no such thing.
The battle may start in the trenches, but it’s the QBs that win the war nowadays. Who was the last mediocre QB to win the big one? Was it not Trent Dilfer? 12 years ago, and that had nothing to do with the Oline and everything to do with their D. Now look at all the rule changes that have happened in the last 12 years. How many of those changes implemented were to help out and make the game easier for the Oline and how many did that for the QB. If you really don’t think that QB is all that important look at the Colts’ last two seasons.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
One more thing:
This slow quarterback turned out to be one of the best in Browns history.
Bernie Kosar is not Otto Graham.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
He said “One” of the best. Not THE best. As we all know Ottomatic was the best QB to ever play in the NFL..
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
My bad I misread that. Disregard.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Without looking, didn’t he put this in another thread?
by Brownie's Year on Feb 20, 2012 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. I want a legitimate starting quarterback and, all things considered, I’d be far more comfortable with RG3 than Flynn.
I still don’t understand the Flynn love. Everything I’ve heard about him fits more into the “even a blind squirrel” category than the “franchise QB” category.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
I’m pretty clear where I stand on RG3, and I wouldn’t support a move for Flynn. However, I’m also in the “In H&H we trust” camp.
Andre Knott (WTAM Browns guy) has been repeating for the last couple weeks that he hears a lot from Berea that the Browns like Matt Flynn. Who knows how serious of an effort they’ll make for him, or if they have a low price ceiling, or where Flynn ranks compared to RG3, or where they will rank after teams get to sit down with RG3 and see him work out.
I don’t know if the Browns will sign Flynn, and my thinking has been right there with Bernie19Kosar’s all along, but that doesn’t mean we should be surprised if the Browns go after him.
Steel Nick
I’m pretty clear where I stand on RG3, and I wouldn’t support a move for Flynn. However, I’m also in the "In H&H we trust" camp.
The same is pretty much the case for me as well. The one thing, even though I use the “H&H” abbreviation all the time, I actually only trust one of those H’s. It’s Heckert’s drafting abilities that make me think this may still yet work eventually.
Granted, Heckert once drastically underplayed how amazingly talented Jayme Mitchell really is.
I don't believe you
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If it’s in the sarcasm font, shouldn’t it have been REC?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
good point
Resident Tim Couch Apologist.
by Dawg Nuts on Feb 19, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 20, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Kosar had an uncanny ability to read a defense and was far more accurate than what McCoy has shown. I have seen McCoy make poor throws and miss open receivers (happy feet) more in one year than I saw Bernie miss in his career and thats even when he has had time to throw. Not sure if its from the beating he has taken, but he clearly has gotten rid of the ball at times too soon not allowing his receivers to have a chance to get open
Any time your QB has been moving the ball, gets past midfield, then kills the drive by running out of the pocket and flinging a wild pass for an interception on first down, it’s time to start looking for your next QB.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
by JustBob on Feb 19, 2012 2:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The Packers stuck with Favre for a long time, and it seemed to work.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Every frinken board is against Colt. How in the hell can you guys see that Colt’s the guy or not? He started last year with a new coaching staff that he couldn’t communicate with because of the strike. Then they instated a new system, the WCO without time to really practice because of the strike. They didn’t have a right OL all year, a fourth string running back in the back field because one our running backs had the Madden disease. Finally no receivers, the best receiver was a rookie that didn’t play football for one full year. I hope you guys knew that last year was a write-off. Now lets get some good draft picks and build for a Championship team and it’s not going to happen tomorrow. The Browns are on the way. GO BROWNS. I agree totally with Greg1958.
And Alex Smith.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 19, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Steve Smith in 2010: 46 catches, 554 yards, 2 TD’s
Steve Smith in 2011: 79 catches, 1394 yards, 7 TD’s.
Yep, Steve Smith sure made Cam Newton look good.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
He sure made matt moore look good too…oh wait…
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because of the strike
Lockout. Because of the lockout. There’s actually a pretty big difference and the reason why there wouldn’t be a scab season had the lockout stretched into the season. Owners impose lockouts and players commit to strikes.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
I want to see a post that considers that we got our QB in March in Free Agency….now what do we do with all these picks. I love that scenario!
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
The problem with that is, unless we get manning, it is hard to be realistic and also confident that we have the QB position “fixed” for a good deal of time…and even with him you have age and injuries. It’s not like there is the sure-fire QB we can get before march that is just going to blow RG3 out of the water.
I could write a post like that, but it wouldn’t be that optimistic because unless H&H have info we don’t, it’s hard to be confident that matt flynn will be a success.
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There isn’t a good QB available.
Great Quarterbacks don’t become Free Agents. (Save the Drew Brees nonsense. AJ Smith is a moron.)
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ok well how bout a look at the QB crop next year…even with the almighty Griffin we are not going to make it to the super bowl….well probably unless B White is right…which I hope she is.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Great Quarterbacks don’t become Free Agents.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wut? Favre. That was easy.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
NO, he said Great QBs dont become free agents, favre was a great QB who became a fre agent, Peyton Manning is a great QB about to be a free agent…joe montana was a great QB …was he a FA or a trade?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
favre was no longer a great qb by the time he moved on … but he was traded to the jets, and then he pulled another bullcrap retirement after his season w/ the jets and forced the jets to release him so the vikings could hire him. hardly a good example.
peyton manning may never be able to play again. and he’s not an fa just yet.
montana was traded.
great qb’s don’t hit the open market.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
check out his first year stats with the Vikings.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
favre was no longer a great qb by the time he moved on
Agree with your broader point, but Favre did have one of his best seasons in the first year with the Vikings.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 19, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
All 3 of those QB’s were 37 years or older.
Awesome. Sounds like a great way to build a consistent winner.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
you are not the only one who has said this, but the most recent that i’ve read, so i’m putting this comment here:
even with the almighty Griffin we are not going to make it to the super bowl
hanging onto all of our picks and adding justin blackmon, whitney mercilus, and chris polk IS going to get us to the super bowl next year? the 2013 super bowl has nothing to do with anything.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
What will get us closer? those 3 or a Griffin? no one knows.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
After years and years of watching Cle sports you and I both know that is no guarantee, but I hope u are right.
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 19, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
it is obvious that the way more likely answer is the quarterback.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 19, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing is a guarantee in football other than QB being the most important position on the field.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
No, those three guys will have us picking in the top 5 again next season.
Then, the same people will be against trading two first rounders to move up and take Matt Barkley. Rinse, repeat.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 19, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Nail on head.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 19, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
So, wait, you’re saying we shouldn’t worry about getting a QB until the offseason before the Browns are a superbowl-caliber team? I think you have the order reversed. You get the QB so you can become a superbowl-caliber team.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 9:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I’ll go with the best quarterback, thanks. If H&H think it’s Griffin, I couldn’t care less about “all those” (one extra) draft picks.
And I’m certainly not going to settle for a free agent just to keep that one pick.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 19, 2012 9:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I could also see Tannehill to Miami since his coach at A&M is now their OC. Flynn to Washington, Tannehill maybe to Mia – do you risk losing RG3 to save a couple of picks?
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