Cleveland Browns Free Agency Talk - DL
by Jon @ DBN on Feb 21, 2012 3:09 PM EST
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PrintWith the NFL Free Agency drawing closer every day, we're going to continue to discuss free agent targets for the Cleveland Browns at each major position. We've already taken a look at potential free agent QBs, RBs, and WRs. Today we move on to the defensive line.
Fortunately, the Browns have the starting defensive tackles figured out, barring any unforeseen injuries, with Ahtyba Rubin and Phil Taylor. This piece will primarily focus on the free agents at defensive end, which is a position that the Browns still have a glaring weakness at. Luckily, our 2011 second round pick Jabaal Sheard has turned out quite well with 8.5 sacks and five forced fumbles in his rookie season, but the Browns still need a legitimate pass rusher on the other side. Check out some of the potential targets after the jump.
- Mario Williams (HOU - 27) – Mario Williams is probably the best defensive lineman in this year's free agent class. Bernie19Kosar has already gone into detail about how and why the Browns should aggressively pursue Williams. However, in a recent report, Williams said that he wants to stay with the Houston Texans and that becoming the highest paid defensive end isn't his goal.
- Cliff Avril (DET - 25) – If Mario Williams is the best defensive end in this class, Cliff Avril is a fantastic consolation prize, which even then sounds like an understatement. Of Cliff Avril's four seasons in the NFL, he recorded his best most recently in 2011. In addition to his 36 combined tackles, he had a career high 11 sacks, six forced fumbles, and an interception returned for a touchdown. He, too, wants to stay with his current team, the Detroit Lions, but he wants a long-term deal and would consider holding out if he's hit with the franchise tag.
- Calais Campbell (ARI - 25) – Calais Campbell is another 2008 draft pick that has had his best season in 2011. He recorded career highs across the board with 72 combined tackles, eight sacks, 10 passes defended, two forced fumbles, and one interception. While he does play in the Arizona Cardinal's 3-4 defensive scheme, some have suggested that he may be an even better fit in a 4-3. Still, the team's general manager Rod Graves made it clear that they won't let Campbell go.
- Robert Mathis (IND - 30) – Robert Mathis has been one of the most consistent pass rushers over the past eight years. Even with the Indianapolis Colt's most recent struggles, Mathis, who turns 31 in a few days, hasn't slowed down. It remains to be seen whether or not the Colts will franchise tag Mathis. If he does hit the open market and the other top DEs return to their respective former teams, Mathis could be in for a big pay day. He's proven he's still got something left despite his age, but the Browns have been devoted to getting younger. I still think he'd be a great fit here if the price is right.
- John Abraham (ATL - 33) – Speaking of consistent veterans, John Abraham is right behind Mathis in this free agent class. At 33, he recorded 9.5 sacks last season, which is equal to Mathis. Abraham will turn 34 before the start of training camp. The question is: How much does he have left in the tank? If he's available, and the Browns don't address the position with someone else, I wouldn't mind throwing a one or two-year flier his way.
Remember, if you think there is a potential FA, such as a depth adding DT, that the Browns should target that might have been overlooked or is even just worth mentioning, feel free to discuss that here. As always, think of this as a free agency open thread dealing with the defensive line.
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Abraham is a great player. If he were about 3 years younger I’d say do whatever it takes to sign him.
Of course, there are more pressing matters at hand.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
When was the last time the Browns got a big name free agent?
I last ones I can thin of is Jeff Garcia, and we know how that turned out. The other one was Joe Jurivicous, but he was a 3rd down reciever and we went to the playoffs that year.
Everytime this year we talk free agents and what could be, then by late March all the big name free agents are gone and we are stuck with outcasts (Shaun Rogers). I hope this year and under Holmgren things CHANGE. It seems the Browns are going to address the offense in the draft by drafting a qb, wr, rb in high rounds, whcih leaves FA for a DL.
I know and almost certain based on Browns history that we wont get Williams or Avril. We just never land the “best” thats always been reserved for the Steelers, Patriots, etc. so, lets hope we get someone from this list, even if its Abraham. At least he can be a good mentor for Sheard. Mckinnis helped out Jackson. We can only hope to get someone from this list!
Jeff Garcia and Joe Juriviciuous were not “big names” imo. Joe did his job well here.
The other one was Joe Jurivicous, but he was a 3rd down reciever and we went to the playoffs that year.
The NFL playoffs? I’m confused.
Philly signed a bunch of “big names” last season and won the same amount of playoff games as the Browns. 0
But I agree that Cleveland is a tough sell to young rich people.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
My point is what you said, they are not big names, thats why I asked when was the last time the browns did sign a “big name” the only two I could think of was Jeff..he was a 4 time Pro Bowler before joing the Browns.
Joe was great with us and always has been great, he was also a big name or well sought after because he played in 3 Super Bowls! Giants, Seattle and won a Super Bowl with Tampa bay and was their leading receiver in that game. just saying
Who are the big name FAs that play for the Steelers and Patriots?
by Legoman0721 on Feb 22, 2012 3:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Gary Baxter, LeCharles Bentley, Eric Steinbach…
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Williams was a trade.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Go after Mario without question.
Isn’t Abraham like 50 now or something?
Avril will be franchised.
Mathis is starting on the downward spiral.
Campbell won’t leave Arizona.
Madden 12 does not have bugs, it has dyslexia & tourettes.
everyone and their dawgs are goin to be after Williams,
and he wants to stay with the team that he just helped get to the playoffs for the first time in franchise history. That would be a dream scenerio but we would have to sell the rest of our defensive players to afford him,
and ya Abraham is goin to be 34..that why he is our man cause he might have a decent year and can mentor other DL we have and get including Taylor and Sheard
That would be a dream scenerio but we would have to sell the rest of our defensive players to afford him [Williams]
This isn’t true at all.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
Isn’t Abraham like 50 now or something?
33.
Avril will be franchised.
Then the Lions may be facing a holdout.
Mathis is starting on the downward spiral.
I don’t think so. Obviously, he’s not in the prime of his career, but I think he has a few years left. Abraham is actually an excellent example of a veteran playing great into his 30s.
I was being sarcastic about abraham. LOL
I thought I read on the Lions blog that the FO was indeed saying they were gonna franchise Avril.
Mathis is questionable, hopefully for his sake it was just because he was on field all the time without Manning being there & it really wore him down.
Madden 12 does not have bugs, it has dyslexia & tourettes.
I think more than being on the field more, a bigger issue may have been teams passing the ball less and being needed more in run defense
He had 9.5 sacks and 17 QB hits over 16 games (only 15 starts) in 2011
He had 11 sacks and 19 QB hits over 16 games in 2010
Teams threw 493 times in 2011 and 535 in 2010.
In 2011, he got to the QB once in every 18.6 attempts
In 2010, he got to the QB once in every 17.8 attempts.
maybe he wore down a tiny bit, but it’s really minimal. Over 16 games, this translates into 1 less pressure on the QB total.
Then again, that tiny difference could be explained away by him not starting against us and having no impact in that game because of a tiny injury.
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They can tag him, but he claims he will hold out.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
I am fine with a 2-3 year contract for mathis. You can never have too many pass rushers and there is no guarantee they are going to target one early in the draft.
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I agree completely. In fact, I’d be happy with any of the guys listed here.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 22, 2012 3:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That just proves my point again, Rogers wasnt a free agent an " off season acquisition" which we gave up Bodden to get leaving that position open to Eric Wright, who didnt do anything and ended up on the Lions playoff team anyways. That just brought up another can of worms. Still can’t remember one free agent that panned out.
And no way was Rogers fantastic. He had one good year with 75 tackles followed by a 53 the next two yrs combined. He alsow has never had 2 good seasons in a row, far from fantastic
Furthermore, I’m sick of hearing: “The Browns never sign big name free agents and therefore will not sign a big name free agent.”
Is it guaranteed that the Browns will sign a big name free agent? Absolutely not. But, there’s no reason to dismiss the possibility entirely because someone has the false notion that Cleveland has never signed a big free agent before.
Hate to bring this name up but…some guy named Bentley wasn’t too shabby when we got him.
Jerseys Ive owned since 99. Couch. Brown. K.Johnson. A.Davis. Suggs. Green. Winslow. Edwards. Cribbs. Thomas. Haden.
by ColumbusBacker on Feb 21, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Bentley was also an example of an idiotic free agent signing. We already had a very good center who we then traded for some spare parts. Don’t use free agency to address positions where you don’t have need, especially when the team has so many freaking needs.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 21, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Ok yes Steinbach was a good big name free agent and so was Bently, but what about players that are play makers..when did those player carry a team when was the last time they a game that made the difference? Two lineman were mentioned as big names yet I cant remember anyone discussing what a great line Cleveland had not to mention any Pro Bowls from any of them. Solid lineman are underrated but because they dont carry a team or win a game. We need to get a FA that is a difference maker..like Williams can be Jackson is another someone on the field that will keep the opposing defensive Cordinator up all night. to get off the subject a bit..lets hope we get RG3!
Lets also cut wallace and sign Vince Young
Playmaking FAs bust more often than not. If they were that great their teams would keep them. Football is too much of a team sport to just grab random talent and throw it all together and hope there’s chemistry. They are just careful to get guys who fit with this team. That said, Stevie Williams would be a perfect fit with this team.
Sidney Rice
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You are also leaving off Kevin Shaffer who was a pretty good Tackle for us.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Before we kill the Bentley signing we need to remember: Jeff Faine sucked against 3-4 defenses.
He was destroyed every time we faced the Steelers or Ravens. Bentley was widely regarded as one of the best Center’s in the league and was coming off a Pro Bowl season.
If Bentley didn’t shred his knee, the signing would have been great. Remember, Faine left the Saints after two years and signed a contract that was almost the exact same as the one Bentley signed with the Browns. In other words, we would have had the better player for the same price.
The freak injury makes it seem so much worse than it was.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
We were #1 on the NFLN’s list of snakebit franchises. Stuff like the Bentley knee and the CB from Baltimore who never played for us didn’t even factor into their discussion. SERENITY NOW!!!
by HenryDawg on Feb 23, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And no way was Rogers fantastic. He had one good year
He was one of the best DT’s in the NFL. Much better than one good year.
And Eric Steinbech has been fantastic for us.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure we have to overpay a FA DE, there are some good pass rushers that may be available to us in the 2nd: Curry from Marshall, Branch from Clemson, there are a couple of others I’m not remembering that have some potential.
I’m all about signing one guy and drafting one early as well. In a 4-3, we need as many pass rushers as we can get.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
Because of the needs we assume the draft will fill, which free agent class should the Browns persue more aggressively? WR or DE? I’m of the opinion that the FAWR class is deeper in talent than pass rushers, but the draft might address the WR need before DE. So what’s the move for H&H? I say go after a WR (Bowe, VJackson, more likely L.Robinson)in FA, use our second pick (be it 22 or 37 depending on a trade up for RG3) on a pass rusher, and possibly look at drafting a tweener like L.James or C.Rainey to catch passes out of the backfield or the slot. Just some food for thought.
Jerseys Ive owned since 99. Couch. Brown. K.Johnson. A.Davis. Suggs. Green. Winslow. Edwards. Cribbs. Thomas. Haden.
It depends on the guy. I’d have to rank them by person, not position. For example, I would take Mario Williams over any Free Agent WR out there, but I’d take Bowe over J. Abraham for example. Of course, none of these things are happening.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 21, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, none of these things are happening.
should have been the title of this article.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
agreed. wouldn’t let Sheard walk once he reaches FA.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
I would absolutely love to see Avril in the Orange & Brown next year. Mario Williams wouldn’t be bad either.
"I don't know what no means"
by BenRapelisberger on Feb 21, 2012 7:32 PM EST reply actions
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Juqua Parker (formerly Thomas) brought in as a backup. There’s the obvious Heckert ties plus he’s had several 6+ sack seasons for Philly.
Since DE was addressed in the article, I was looking at some possible DTs. Not a huge need, but I’d rather not have them having Rubin play the insane number of snaps he played. Just don’t want him to wear down.
Derek Landri: Decent pass rush, good run stuffer. Heckert draftee
Broderick Bunkley: Good run stuffer, minimal rush. Heckert draftee, though I kinda remember some rumors he chose to play in Denver over us
Amobi Okoye: Decent reserve in Chicago. Insane talent and good pass rush.
Jason Jones: Dunno if he’d fit the scheme, but a great situational pass rushing DT
As for a bigger name guy:
Red Bryant: He destroyed us and was drafted by Holmgren who loved his talent. He can play DE or DT in the 3-4.
I would also be interested in mark Anderson if we get another DE in the draft or FA (like Red Bryant). Anderson is great off the bench as a pass rush only guy. Put him in on 3rd downs and move Bryant inside to give Rubin/Taylor a breather.
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Do we really need a Frog Stance on our team?
by Brownie's Year on Feb 21, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Not if we have to hear Mora talk about it all game.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Like Okoye, just have to wonder how old he really is…
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
good point. Even if he is a couple years older, that’s still 27 which means a tiny bit of upside. Not bad for a rotational DT.
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I don’t think we can afford Bunkley or Jones as rotational players behind Tuba and Taylor. Landri and Okoye are interesting ideas, probably cheaper. I’m curious how much Okoye will end up signing for.
Jones struggled this year, but might still receive a big payday. It was just a thought. Bunkley I am not sure about in terms of salary. He hasn’t been a full time starter the last 2 years and since he has never been a FA, I don’t know what his value is (and the best I can find about the draft pick given up was “undisclosed”)
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I like Bunkley, but that would be insane.
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Didn’t Bunkley have a refusal clause in his contract, and that’s why we don’t have him?
alternatively, i heard he failed his physical here but passed in Denver? You guys know which one is true or do we have that info?
I was thinking the same thing about Bryant. But, he’s been injured a lot and missed many games in the past. Plus, we saw one of the best games of his career against the Browns. That might cause us to overvalue him. He is pretty impressive when healthy. Goes hard each play.
But a Rubin, Taylor and Bryant rotation would be a nasty trio to handle.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
But a Rubin, Taylor and Bryant rotation would be a nasty trio to handle.
exactly. Also, we could shore up the O-Line in the short term by grabbing him and mathis/abraham/mark anderson.
You play Bryant at DE on rushing downs and on passing downs, he is a rotational DT with one of those guys playing at DE
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Mario is the only guy I would break the bank for. If we cant get him i would be content to sign a roll player and keep drafting. Guys of Williams caliber just don’t come free very often. Williams also said scheme was important to him. The 34 the Texans play is just not suited to his strengths. Plus they have several key players to sign in the next two years. IMO Mario will sign with a 43 team. It might as well be the Browns.
by Pillowhands on Feb 21, 2012 8:34 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
It’s interesting that Williams said he wants to stay in Houston and that being the highest paid guy isn’t the first priority, but also acknowledges the business aspect to it, saying that he doesn’t know what Houston plans to do. In all honestly, despite saying that bit about pay, I don’t see Williams taking a huge pay cut. I can’t picture him being that in love with Houston. So, if Houston is comfortable with Reed, I can see Mario Williams playing somewhere else.
Give HAynesworth his final chance. No downside, pure incentive based.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
by realmccoy on Feb 21, 2012 10:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sean Rogers mk2? No thanks!
Shaefering is worth his spot in the DT rotation isn’t he? Not as if the cupboard is bare.
I’d love for Coples to pan out for us.
....just need a guy called Byner to play RT...
by LondonBrown on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love another Shaun Rogers, are you kidding me?
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Prolly had the most dominant defensive performance on the Browns in the last 25 years or so. Only one year, but was he ever a beast.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
You can stick a fork in Haynesworth. He’s done.
Also, the downside would be that probably ends up in a shouting match with an assistant coach.
I’d risk it. I am sick of this plain vanilla approach and not taking any chances on character guys, expensive free agents, medium range free agents, cheap free agents, veteran WRs, proven head coaches. We are on the hamster wheel my friend.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I would have no problem bringing in Haynesworth. But it would be on a zero tolerance, performance based contract.
He wants to act a fool? Adios.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think this hinges on whether H&H see Mario as worth the price he’ll demand… and don’t see a cheaper DE option in that could still be effective in the draft of FA.
I don’t see any of these guys hitting the market except Mathis and Abraham and I would be surprised if we spent that money on someone with their age just considering where we are as a team.
I think we’ll end up with Rucker, Idonije (sp?), maybe get Roth back, someone like that
For the record I would love to steal Red Bryant from SEA, what a phenomenal interior rotation we could have, no way they let him go though either…sad
I don’t think mathis and abraham are out of question due to age. They can be good stop-gaps and free up Heckert to draft a project DE later.
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maybe, i guess i just have a hard time seeing us pay the kind of money they’ll command, especially mathis
How much would mathis really demand? He was getting about 5-6 million in the last 2 years of this deal. For some reason, I don’t see his value going up but if anything (because of age), going down.
I would love to get a combo of a speed rusher and a DE/DT guy (play DE in running situations, move inside for passing situations), but the best combo (mathis/bryant) may be a bit pricey.
An interesting combo would be Johnathan Fanene and mathis, but they are both 30
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Whatever happened to that Geathers kid with the condor like wingspan?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
I know I wrote the article say that the Browns needed to go after Mario, but I want Avril more.
He isn’t as sexy as Mario Williams, and won’t allow the Browns to do as many things as they could do with Williams, but I like the upside with Avril. I don’t buy the belief that he only played well because he was next to Suh. While that plays a factor, that kid was awesome this season.
Athletic, has a great motor and has a bit of a nasty streak to him as well. I really like the way he attacks the ball when he gets to the passer, much like Sheard. Plus he is 25. Even a 7 year contract wouldn’t be a killer.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
Honestly, haven’t watched enough to give you a good answer that.
With that being said, if Avril continues to get to the passer like he did last season, I can live with him being poor against the run. (Not saying that he is mind you
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
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