Shurmur to Call Plays in 2012; Childress to be in Booth
by Chris Pokorny on Feb 22, 2012 11:08 AM EST
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PrintNFL coaches, general managers, and personnel from around the league are at the NFL Combine as it kicks off today, including Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur and offensive coordinator Brad Childress. I'm sure we'll hear some more nuggets about Shurmur and Childress as the week progresses, but this tweet by Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal warranted a post:
@NateUlrichABJ
Nate Ulrich#Browns HC Pat Shurmur said he will call plays but will be in constant communication w/ OC Brad Childress, who will be in booth. #NFL
56 minutes ago via Twitter for Android · Reply · Retweet · Favorite · powered by @socialditto
That pretty much conforms with the expectations I had after Childress was hired, but maybe it will still be a surprise to those fans who thought the former Vikings head coach would call plays.
Marty Gitlin from CBS Sports has two more quotes from Shurmur. Regarding Colt McCoy, Shurmur said, "I'm expecting him to attack the offseason and get as good as he can within our system." When asked if it would be premature to assume the team will draft Robert Griffin III, Shurmur said, "That's a fair comment." Of course it's a fair comment; anything that is said prior to Browns being on the clock in April is premature.
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I’m cool with this.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Montario Hardesty, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 22, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions
Agreed, Alex Smith deserves more carries.
by Jon @ DBN on Feb 22, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
there’s a pederast joke there somewhere
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Feb 22, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it’s a better use of him. He doesn’t handle players well, he’s here to help with game planning and adjustments. It’s a lot easier to see what is going on from in the booth.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
as long as we don’t end up calling plays that have our 3rd string TE taking hand offs in critical spots I guess I don’t really care where Childress parks his ass on game day.
Also as for him not handling players well isn’t one of Chilly’s main duties going to be running offensive meetings and game planning with the offense? Isn’t that going to require him to work with a whole bunch of our offensive players?
Well yes he has to work with our players a lot, and he’ll be fine with that I assume. I just meant he isn’t one to get in a guy’s ear and pump him up or something.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
That play stand out among many others as one of the worst. But I’m over it. I’m done thinking about plays from 2011.
I actually just hope the decision was made to shoot last years’ playbook out of a cannon into space… far, far away.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
by LocalMan on Feb 22, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m still not sure how much of last year’s playcalling was Shurmur’s fault or because he was calling plays for a team without a running game, without field-stretching ability, with a QB making a lot of mistakes under duress, etc. Equal parts I’m sure. I bet there’s a lot of plays Shurmur was just unable to call.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 22, 2012 1:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I see that as part of the problem with Shurmur, I know he was handicapped by some rotten talent and luck but his inflexibility and unwillingness to change what he wanted to do to match the talent he had seems like a problem. Rather than molding his playbook around McCoy and his strength he tried to jam McCoy and the rest of the offense into his system regardless of whether or not he thought it would work b/c for him it’s more about the WCO and the system than it is about the individual players and their specific strengths and weaknesses.
You gotta keep in mind how new everything was last year (systems, coaches, players). On top of that Shurmur had never been a head coach at any level until last year. Add that to the short off season and it’s hard for me to dump a ton of blame on any one coach or player. However, Shurmur made me want to cry in my beer many times. McCoy just as much.
That being said, all things equal last year the Browns might have won a couple more games.
I’d like to never think about last season ever again, actually.
"A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip." Thompson
i lay a lot of blame at the feet of the decision to allow shurmur to be the oc AND hc.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 22, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
There are 2 problems with that
a) mccoy has strengths? I would think if he had any, a WCO would play to them.
b) I don’t think that Shurmur is totally inflexible. I think based on hearing him speak that he would adjust the offense to an elite talent like RG3. The thing is, we didn’t have a talent worth adjusting the offense to.
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What strength of McCoy’s was Shurmur ignoring? That legendary deep ball? The playcalling was dump off after dump off.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 22, 2012 1:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No doubt his deep ball was as rare as a Robiskie. As was our deep WR threat.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
We ran 4 verticals like 5 times in one game last year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Was that Colt’s 40 of 60 Tennessee fiesta? Anyways, I’m not saying we never ran them, I just don’t remember a lot in the way of memorable execution. (And don’t go busting on my old man memory. I just ran up a damned flight of stairs.)
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
— Winston S. Churchill
I have the best wife - ever.
The PA deep passes in the Cincy game were nice. Also, the Jacksonville game was the one with a lot of 4 verts.
We weren’t a good offense, but you can’t say we didn’t try to go deep.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
How many more games would molding the offense to suit a mediocre QB have won for us? It was probably better to just throw the whole playbook at the guys so that those who can contribute in the future will start getting a grasp of it. I doubt Colt will be starting long term, why mold an offense around him if he’s just going to be replaced?
by Legoman0721 on Feb 23, 2012 12:56 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I’m not speaking for him, but I think from Rufio’s comments he agrees. He is definitely the highest “football IQ” guy here and I don’t think he had a lot of problems with the play calling most of the time. Rufio, if I’m mistaken, please correct me.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
The playcalls themselves weren’t terrible. I can see what we were trying to do, and honestly I think we’ll have to evaluate when we presumably have more talent on the roster.
I think people blame the playcalls way too much when we don’t score/win, and don’t critique them enough if they happen to work.
One thing we heard from Shurmur was how we had “little margin for error.” I think he mentioned this several times over the course of the season. I think because of this he tried to “stay on schedule” and mitigate the risk of a turnover or 3/out by getting us easy yards. That meant a lot of short passes to try to control the ball, especially without Hillis.
Whether or not this was the right way to go can be second-guessed a million times, but the man had a solid plan.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The playcalls themselves weren’t terrible. I can see what we were trying to do
On a 14-2 team, the slant or curl for 8 yards and relying on the receiver to pick up the next 2 is a perfectly executed play that is relied on time and time again. On a bad team, well, it looks terrible and it looks unimaginative.
Steel Nick
And it looks better when Wes Welker gets those two yards every time.
It looks like dog dirt when MoMass gets tackled for a two yard loss.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
It looks really good when teams try to press you and Welker turns that seam route into a 99 yard TD.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Those plays get CBs cut the next day.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 24, 2012 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t hate the playcalling last season. Shurmur tried his best to get his playmakers the ball in the areas in which they were more comfortable. (Cue the Alex Smith talk).
A coach’s job is to put his football team in the best position he can. It’s the players job to execute from there.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 22, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is, the players sucked and honestly weren’t as well prepared as they could be. Talent fixes the first issue and it is my belief that an OC (so Shurmur doesn’t have to be HC/OC/Playcaller) would fix the 2nd issue.
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Shurmur said he wouldn’t have called that play if he knew Smith was going to get the handoff. I think this is exactly the sort of thing that will get cleaned up with another key staffer on offense.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It doesn’t surprise me that Shurmur is going to retain the play calling duties.
What does surprise me is that Brad Childress will be in the booth. I thought only coaches with a debilitating illness ever opted for something like that.
What I don’t understand is that I thought this was supposed to ease Shurmurs job… Seems to me he’ll be doing everything he did last year except now he’s gotta talk to some bald, bespectacled goober in the booth while does it. I guess maybe itll ease his prep for games at practice and stuff. Idk much about horse racin or bear hunting.
"It is unlikely that anyone has ever read Nietzsche or Derrida and has been inspired to open a soup kitchen"
by troy145 on Feb 22, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I almost spit up my Diet Dew when I read "he’s gotta talk to some bald, bespectacled goober in the booth "..rec
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
by Red-Right-88 on Feb 22, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Last year everything was on Shurmur from Monday to Sunday.
Now he will have help in preparation, help calling games and help coaching his young Quarterbacks. It’s a huge addition.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 22, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Serious or joking? On gameday, Childress is going to be spending his time looking at what happened on each play: pre-snap, snap, and post-snap for both the opposing defense and our offense. Some guys like to do that with printouts on the sideline and some prefer video, either way it’s the same job.
Right. The bird’s eye view (k-kaw!) will give Chilly the perspective needed to tip-off Shurmer on trends, areas to exploit, etc. the only downside is he can communicate to players face-to-face as much. For a guy like Childress, is that really a bad thing?!
by Boston Browns on Feb 22, 2012 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*can’t (not can) communicate
by Boston Browns on Feb 22, 2012 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was being serious. I never said nor implied that his OC job is drastically altered by being in the booth. I said that I was surprised. What percentage of healthy NFL offensive coordinators spend the game from the booth? I don’t know the answer, perhaps you can enlighten me.
I’m pretty sure Bruce Arians at least, and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a couple more.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Here is an article from ‘07 that stated 10 OC’s did it from the booth that season.
Pretty good article highlighting the Pro’s and Con’s.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 22, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Great minds…
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 22, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s an interesting article about the sideline versus the coaches’ box. Sure, some coaches are forced to go into the box because of health reasons but either way your team really benefits from having at least one guy up there from offense and one from defense. Whether it’s a coordinator or an offensive assistant, it helps to have a guy looking at things from that perspective and communicating what he sees to the guys on the sideline.
Maybe his being born devoid of a personality qualifies as a disability under the ADA
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I was under the impression that its fairly common to have several coaches up in the booth to see the field better and radio down adjustments and things like that.
by Legoman0721 on Feb 23, 2012 1:01 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Purely specualtion, but do you think that in order to lure a guy with a resume like Childress to the OC position – without play calling duties – that H,H&S may have told him “We are going to get RGIII” as an inticement?
Maybe I’m overestimating other teams want or need for a guy like Childress, but when Hue Jackson gets the kind of job he did for Cincy it makes you wonder.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
I’m sure it’s alluded to in some fashion. i.e. “with your experience we’d love for you to have a hand in developing any new QB prospects we might bring in and feel we’re in a great position, with all I our picks this year, to do leverage that part of your resume.”
by Boston Browns on Feb 22, 2012 12:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No.
Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 22, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure they’ll collaborate the play calling. Childress will probably have some say, but he won’t have direct communication to the QB’s earpiece.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 22, 2012 12:09 PM EST reply actions
Right, Childress is going to have input. He’s up there to spot trends and look for weak points. Once he sees them he can relay that to Shurmur. Childress might say something like “Their backside end is over-pursuing, maybe try a counter,” and then Shurmur would decide exactly what formation, personnel, motions, etc.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. There’s nothing bad about this.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 22, 2012 1:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Disagree. Was hoping that Shurmur would hire someone better at calling plays than he is. Lets be brutally honest, his 2 years as the play caller have been atrocious.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
by realmccoy on Feb 22, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re just mad that McCoy couldn’t run any play that Shurmur called. It’s not Pat’s fault that Colt sucks. And the day Colt isn’t the starter or on the team you probably won’t even be here anymore. You’ll just run away like BQIB did.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 22, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
If the OC’s job isn’t to call play, his ability at picking the correct play out of about 6 is totally irrelevant. That’s more of a judgement thing and going with your gut. Childress is going to be up in the booth, look at the formation the D is in, figure out a few options to counter it, and then send those options to Pat. He was a good OC and learned from one of the best to come out of the WCO in Reid.
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Guess we watched 2 different teams this year. In addtion to dink and dunk Pat – we were treated to a guy who always went for the “safe” FG over a ballzy TD call that could have won the game.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
I’ld rather have a smart coach than a ballzy one who goes for TDs when a FG is the right call in that scenario.
we were treated to a guy who always went for the "safe" FG over a ballzy TD call that could have won the game.
I know what you are referring to.
a) it was one time so it’s not like there was a pattern.
b) a FG would have won the game too and while not as ballsy, it makes sense to rely on a kicker as reliable as Phil
Guess we watched 2 different teams this year.
I am also not talking about Shurmur’s playcalling really but why chilly being good at it is irrelevant. but since you mention it, the talent was truly deficient on this team. Even when given the opportunity, Colt would rarely be able to stretch the field and “dink and dunk Pat” was born.
I guess when you work with rookie/young QBs who haven’t adjusted to the game yet (Colt this year, Bradford last year), you get a reputation of a dink and dunk guy
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I hate to keep ringing this bell, but your Pro Bowl snapper and long time kicker should be able to execute a 20-something yard FG.
If Dawson makes the kick, we win the game (Rams).
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
This is what I am hoping Chilly will be doing.
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I mean its largely called before they even get to the game anyway. Childress will have major input on what goes into the callsheet.
Also, I lost where it was in another thread, did you guys use the Bellichickian route-tree-based terminology system in college? I.e. always a 3-digit number where first and third numbers are routes for X and Z, middle digit is for Y/slot/Hback or whoever else is running the middle route.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I actually like Shurmur’s press conferences. Not because he says anything noteworthy, but I find it almost comical how little he actually says about anything.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Did he already start talking about battling? I can’t take him seriously once he says it. In one presser, it was the third word. That one was a struggle to read. I certainly battled.
I should have made my screen name DerekAndersonIsMyBrother
i can’t stand listening to (or reading) the guy’s press performances. his ability to say a lot of words and actually say nothing is too frustrating for me.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 22, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
his ability to say a lot of words and actually say nothing is too frustrating for me.
I find this entertaining. I also like truly terrible movies, like the Happening, so take that for what you will.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 22, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Super Troopers was horribly funny if that counts.
I’m also currently listening to horrible Skrillex bouncing off the walls.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Feb 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
No, Super Troopers was good funny. The Happening is literally the worst movie I’ve ever seen.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 23, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Worse than ‘The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes’??
by OldTimeDawg on Feb 23, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Super troopers was quite brilliant. Their other stuff? meh. I liked beerfest mostly because it has cloris leachman
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Beerfest is fantastic.
Slammin’ Salmon and Club Dread were pretty bad.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
Beerfest wasn’t as good, but I still liked it. That was the only other one worth mentioning
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Club Dread was awful. But BOOBIES!
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Feb 23, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
The Happening is literally the worst movie I’ve ever seen.
I could give you a list. Instead I’ll recommend a podcast, “How Did This Get Made?” They assign a truly shitty movie and then spend an hour ripping it apart. The latest was on Netflix Instant, “Cool As Ice” starring Vanilla Ice. I can’t recommend it enough.
Steel Nick
This sounds amazing.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 23, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
In a hipster ironic sense?
I remember that being huge in clubs for about a week, then everyone realized how stupid it was but it didn’t really matter because a lot of people found out about Under Pressure for the first time so he actually did a good thing.
In a hipster ironic sense?
Come now, surely we can all agree that the idea of a movie being so bad it’s good predates hipsterism by a good many years. I mean, MST3K was on the air in the 80’s for pete’s sake!
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
When I was younger I used to blow my money on the vhs tapes because we didn’t have cable. Now I’ve got every episode on my hard drive!
"We just lost to the Steelers 20 hours ago and that still hurts. I need to get home and eat a burrito." -Phil Dawson
by Adrock2099 on Feb 24, 2012 12:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s what I meant. I use horrible in a bright sense.
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Feb 23, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Super Troopers is one of the funniest movies of all time.
Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
OF ALL TIME!
XBL - TheRabbit087. Get at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Feb 23, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Isn’t that what we call “coachspeak”? Any profession that doesn’t want to reveal a ton is well-versed in saying a lot but saying nothing.
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I wonder if ‘coachspeak’ is related to ‘Legaleze’??
by OldTimeDawg on Feb 23, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
and politispeak
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