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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

Ron Wolf & Mike Holmgren

On Jan 14, 2012 Browns GM Tom Heckert said, “The way to build a team is through the draft.” One day later I read a chapter in Ron Wolf’s book “The Packer Way” that stated”

“Clubs hide behind the lame lament, “We build through the Draft”, so they won’t be revealed for what they are: afraid to be good. There are franchises that have been nothing other than ordinary for years…even when they are faced with still another .500 or worse season.” Ron Wolf

Of course you need strong drafts consistently like the Patriots and that team in Western PA. There is no denying the crappy drafts the Browns have had have set them back year after year since their return.

Star-divide

Ron Wolf’s task in Green Bay was to find a way to turn around a franchise that had been stagnant for 20+ years. Stay with me as we look at a few differences and a few similarities between what he did with the Packers and what Mike Holmgren is doing with the Browns.

Wolf became Executive VP and GM in November 1991. He then analyzed every aspect of the franchise, from Office help to Head Coach. He ran into a lot of “Oh well we are a small market team and .500 is OK”. In other words there was an attitude of losing that had infected every employee. (Browns?) His first move was to fire former Browns OC Lindy Infante, a very popular coach with his players. (Mangini? He had brought many of his own players in).

That off season Holmgren was THE hot coach. The thing that impressed Wolf was Holmgren’s attitude during his interview and when Wolf’s previous team (Raiders) went up against the 49ers. He summed it up by stating of Holmgren; that no matter what or who he was up against he was going to beat you. He signed an offense minded coach in Holmgren (difference here: Jim Harbaugh was the hot coach this past off season but we weren’t in the running, our President went for familiarity, we’ll see if it pans out.)

What’s the one position that can change the fortunes of your team the quickest? Quarterback. If you find a good one you can compete. If you find a great one you have a chance to be great.” Ron Wolf

He goes on to say how amazed he is that teams try to compete without strengthening the QB position. That same statement says if you have an average QB your team will be average, if you have a poor one, you get the picture. Heck we have lived it for almost 20 years.

He had his coach now he needed his Quarterback.

Favre was drafted by Atlanta in the 2nd round, 33rd overall in 1991. Wolf wanted him from the moment he saw him in college. In 1992 Wolf pulled the trigger on a QB that threw 4 passes in the NFL and had 2 of those picked and no completions. He sent Green Bay’s first round pick, 19th overall to Atlanta. (Atlanta used their pick on Tony Smith).

Wolf had his QB, but he needed more. Remember he was trying to change a mindset about GB, the Packers, the Community and the Organization. He pulled out all the stops for the best Free Agent available. In 1993 he signed Reggie White. With that move Green Bay was making a statement. And the rest is History.

Remember that Wolf was a mentor to Holmgren. He saw the successful moves that were made. How those moves resurrected a franchise.

Get that QB at all costs, no matter if everyone thinks you are overpaying. The same goes for Impact Free Agents. At some point, and I am hoping it is this year, it has to be, Holmgren has to roll the dice, pull the trigger, drop the bomb and all those other goofy cliché’s.

He has the pedigree; he has seen it work in the past. Now can history repeat itself in another small market town?

Thanks for reading, it’s my first Fan Post.

Side note: In Jan 2004 the Browns hired Ron Wolf as “Personnel Specialist”. That lasted all of 4 months as he resigned in April of 2004 when Carmen Policy resigned. It would have been nice having a voice like that somewhere in the Front Office.

This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.

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Really nice post RR – as it really sums up the biggest weakness of H&H. Love this quote -

"Clubs hide behind the lame lament, "We build through the Draft", so they won’t be revealed for what they are: afraid to be good. There are franchises that have been nothing other than ordinary for years…even when they are faced with still another .500 or worse season."

For us this means – no key FAs to sign, no impact playmakers selected high, no chances on character. I imagine this year we will buck the trend and trade up.

Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen

by realmccoy on Feb 23, 2012 8:35 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks!

I really think this off season they ARE going to make some huge moves.

I didn’t mention on of the biggest differences: the wasted year with Mangini, where it took wolf 3 months to figure out Lindy wasn’t his coach. why it took Holmgren over a year is still a question.

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Feb 23, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know much at all about Wolf other than what you posted here. Was Wolf ever a Head Coach before? If I’m not mistaken Holmgren almost specifically stated wanting to give Mangini one season to prove himself because he empathized with that stressful situation since knowing how it feels to be a HC.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 23, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont believe he was, he was more involved with the scouting draft side of the Raiders, and then the Bucs. Good Point about empathizing with the coach.

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Feb 24, 2012 4:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see how it highlights any weaknesses of H&H?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Feb 23, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re jumping the gun a bit, mccoy. It was one year that we were quiet in FA. If it becomes a pattern then you may have something, but this FO has shown they’re not afraid to make a big move if they think it’s beneficial (trade w/ Atl).

The other problem with the statement:

it really sums up the biggest weakness of H&H

…is that the article spends time talking about how Holmgren was such a disciple of Wolf’s, and has the ultimate winning attitude – the exact opposite of being “afraid to win”.

If anything it makes the point that the guy in charge is very familiar with Wolf’s theories, and is picking and choosing his spots to act.

Interesting story, but far from an indictment of H&H.

by Vududawg on Feb 23, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree with the sentiments, an enlightening quote.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 23, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

The only thing I can argue with is that you mentioned NE as a team that drafts well when overall their drafts have been pretty abysmal.

by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 23, 2012 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

Abysmal, their drafts have been very bad. Unless you like mediocre players.

by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 23, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I would agree. They have been drafting very average for the last 5 years or so. Everyone’s in awe of the mighty Bellichik and his ability to trade down and find talent. It’s an illusion. The only defensive player that’s really good is Vince Wilfork, a holdover from when they had a dominant D. Their current D players are OK to meh. Without Brady they are .500 in a good year.

by HenryDawg on Feb 23, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Their second round draftees make Mangini look like Bill Walsh.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Feb 23, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

We are talking about the Patriots right? They drafted Gronkowski in the 2nd, that alone is an absolute theft.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 23, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Ras-I-Dowling, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Terrance Wheatley, Chad Jackson.

Jermaine Cunningham, maybe. Chung is pretty solid, as is Spikes.

But for a team that hoards second-rounders and believes in them as the “sweet spot” of the draft, they miss an awful lot and they only really have Gronk to hang their hat on.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Feb 24, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s still a pretty decent success rate given the guys I cited. I was questioning the word choice abysmal, they are at least average.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 24, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

If you consider that average then I hope you are a lot higher on Heckert than you are on Shurmur.

Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.

by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 24, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Last couple of 2nd rounds for Heckert:

Sheard, Little, Hardesty, TJ Ward, LeSean McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Kevin Kolb and two guys I have never heard of so don’t know how they turned out — Victor Abiamiri and Trevor Laws – both are still on the Eagles roster which is at least saying something).

So, other than Hardesty, all of these are very good picks, with some being straight-out fantastic — Sheard, McCoy, Jackson and Kolb (look what they got for the guy).

Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.

by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 24, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

And if you want to get depressed, look at our pre-Heckert history in second rounds. Yikes. MoMass and DQ are the only guys still on the roster! The only guy to have really hit is DQ and, even with him, we missed him for almost two seasons. Double Yikes.

Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.

by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 24, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Laws and Abiamiri have underachieved but they also got buried behind the DL additions of Babin and Cullen Jenkins.

by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 25, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

It would not surprise me if one of them ended up here.

by HenryDawg on Feb 25, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Id be ok with that. You can never have enough DL depth when you are mostly bringing pressure with your front 4.

by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 25, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Abysmal is hyperbole, but I would put them below average. Some of those guys aren’t even playing football.

If they didn’t have Brady they would be in big trouble. And I know that Belichick would do things differently if he didn’t have Brady but still.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Feb 24, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Rob Gronkowski? Aaron Hernandez? Jerod Mayo? McCourty? Cmon. Abysmal is a huge stretch.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 23, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Solder is also going to be a very good player.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 23, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

He already is, what a beast.

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Feb 23, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude is a crazy athlete.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Feb 24, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

McCourty was awful this season, they moved him to safety at one point. Since 2005 the Pats have only gotten three impact starters through the draft (Mankins, Gronk and Mayo).

I will agree that “abysmal” may be a stretch, but for a team that prides themselves on building through the draft and always seeming to have two first rounders, they seem to swing and miss an awful lot.

There was a reason that they were starting two WR’s on defense this year, they haven’t been able to fix those spots through the draft.

Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.

by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

And they have 2 first rounders this year. He sure knows how to stockpile.

"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty

by Red-Right-88 on Feb 24, 2012 4:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I think if you were to compare them to any other team, they’d be pretty similar. I think we forget how many draft picks flop, bottom line is the still find great players.

The point of hoarding picks is because it’s a numbers game, the more picks you have the more likely you are to hit on at least a percentage of them.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 24, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

But shouldn’t the fact of them having more picks than anyone else lead us to the conclusion that they should have more good players than anyone else?

Compare them to the Steelers, another team that drafts well, since ’05 they have had Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, Bryant McFadden, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Rashard Mendenhall and Maurkice Pouncey.

The only true “bust” they have is Limas Sweed. That was with 12 picks. In that same time span the Pats have had 17 and only really hit on Mankins, Mayo, Vollmer and Gronk in the first two rounds.

I think BB is given way too much credit when it comes to drafting.

Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.

by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 24, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

You are comparing them to maybe the best team at drafting, I am arguing they are at least mediocre. I think they understand that the numbers help them get more players, and also acknowledge they will draft busts.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 24, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you have to factor in the pre and post Scott Pioli years as well. I don’t know how they structured draft planning when he was there but their misses overall seem to have increased a fair bit since he went to KC.

by Mal Reynolds on Feb 25, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

i'd

disagree with that sentiment,

McFadden was avg at best, Timmons is overrated. Mendenhall is maybe an avg back. I don’t think he is particually any good. To say the Pat’s would be .500, isn’t really true since it already actually happened and they went 11-5 or 10-6.

We Are!!!!!!

by kingofsmoke on Mar 1, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree 100% on Timmons. That guy is a monster.

I need a shower.

Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.

by Bernie19Kosar on Mar 2, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The key factor you’re missing is that Belichick is capable of drafting mediocre talent and coach up their strengths. As long as he’s got Tom Brady around to lead those guys he’ll be able to tread water with those average players and still make the playoffs every season.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 24, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

And if Brady goes down they will look the Colts did this past season. Having a great QB is awesome, having only a great QB is a recipe for disaster. If the Pats were a solid drafting team they wouldnt have one of the worst Ds in the NFL.

by Justin Kowalczyk on Feb 24, 2012 6:20 AM EST up reply actions  

When Brady went down they still won 11 games. The guy is a douche, but he can coach.

Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.

by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 24, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

No doubt that the Pats would be in a better position than the Colts were this year if disaster were to strike, but that 2008 team was full of talent, much more than they have now (and they just went to the Super Bowl). It was the same team that went undefeated the year before.

Once you start comparing a QB to Drew Brees, you've lost the argument.

by TheDriveStillHurts on Feb 24, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The Pats also have much better backup QBs.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Feb 24, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree the Pats were in a better position than the Colts in ’11. But I also think BB would have been better than 2 wins like the Colts this season.

They wouldn’t be winning 11 games, but they would have been in the area of .500. I give BB that much credit.

Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.

by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 25, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

When Brady went down they still won 11.

by Roger Dorn on Feb 27, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Bingo!!! We have a winner. Thanks for adding some sanity to the conversation.

It’s not committing to one avenue over another as a matter of principle, it’s having great discernment into where the best value is and accurately assessing how each acquisition will impact the team – cap wise and on the field.

That’s why i’m not panicking from one slow year in FA. The Patterson, Brown, and Gocong signings fit exactly what you mentioned and didn’t cost us an arm and a leg, unlike previous high-profile FAs who never did all that much for us.

I’m all for getting 1 or 2 big signings this year because it appears to be a very friendly FA market. Maybe, just maybe, our FO saw that coming up and decided to go for some cheap depth last year to put us in a good spot to land a monster like super mario this yr.

by Vududawg on Feb 23, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Being able to add Mario would be a major coup for us and make our young defense better. I am all for adding great veterans even at certain costs, especially if it benefits the team not only by adding the talent but adding the mentor player – very important. Completing the defensive starters by adding a few free agent pieces would allow the front office to use the draft for primarily offensive players, which would be really awesome, since it seems that this draft is rich with them. If, in a situation like this (basically the defense is fleshed out with starters), I would actually agree with the majority and move up and take the best QB, but it would take both 1sts, 2nd and next years 1st & 2nd to get Andrew Luck, which I believe to be the best QB.

A bargain is something you don't need at a price you can't resist....
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong!
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch!
Once you start agreeing with TDSH, you know that you're wrong.

by J. W. on Feb 23, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Very good post. Not much else to add, just wanted to say this was a good read.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Feb 23, 2012 8:03 PM EST reply actions  

I second this.

Why did the Steeler fan grow a mustache? So he could look like his mother.

by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 23, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Kind of like how rufio and vududawg mentioned, it’s interesting reflect on Wolf’s career as it relates to Holmgren, but that doesn’t leave us with much other than topic fodder outside of Griffin and the draft. I’m sure their relationship together was never so black and white that Holmgren picked up on all of Wolf’s accomplishments, and is setting forth a perfect plan based on how Wolf managed the Packers in the 90s.

I do expect Holmgren has a legitimate plan for our team to succeed, and I’m sure he learned a lot from Wolf and others, but we would be foolish to by into the idea that he’s following a step-by-step program defined by somebody else.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Feb 24, 2012 12:20 AM EST reply actions  

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