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Open Discussion: Derek Anderson

Generally, I believe the majority of Cleveland fans were loving how Derek Anderson was playing prior to the second half of the game against the Pittsburgh Steelers this week. If you look at the right side of the front page of Dawgs By Nature, I currently have a poll (which you may also access here) that asks about your disposition on Anderson after the game.

Personally, I would vote for the first choice. Everything in my mind is still positive about Anderson. He had some shaky spots, and was rough in the second half, but the real turn of the game, as I'll state in my review today or tomorrow, was when Jamal Lewis fumbled the ball. However, this discussion should try to stay focused on your thoughts of Anderson -- Good, Bad, or Neutral, assuming you had a Good opinion in the first place.

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Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
  I like Anderson with the deep throw, but he put too much on those underneath passes and the pass over the middle.  I was impressed that he never got picked off, but he also failed to make the plays down field when we needed them the most.

  I'm of two minds about DA.  On the one hand, he is great at getting the ball out, but I'm still concerned about those decisions, and I would have for us to have blown a 1st round pick (which we could have used to pick up a great D-lineman or a stud young RB) on Brady Quinn and never use him.

by Estonianzulu on Nov 13, 2007 12:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
My biggest beef is still with his lack of touch. He's firing those short and medium passes in there at full throttle when sometimes a little air underneath would make a world of difference. I guess what I'm saying is he needs a change-up to go along with that 98-mph fastball of his.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

by BringBackKosar on Nov 13, 2007 1:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
When Anderson first started some games last year, that was my biggest gripe about him: no touch whatsoever. He still doesn't have great touch this year, but looking at the tape I still have of last year's Kansas City game, he has improved DRAMATICALLY with how his ball comes out.

Still room for improvement, but on the same note, his high, rocket-style also does well for guys who can grab the ball like Edwards and Winslow.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 13, 2007 1:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Whereas prior to the season Donovan McNabb's name was listed higher in Chicago, there seems to be a trend of Chicago fans who would like the Bears to make a run at Anderson.

Firstly, what are the odds Anderson gets out of Cleveland?  I know he is restricted, so they will likely tender him high, but can they really afford to give him a long term deal I am sure he wants and still have Quinn on the bench for so long?

He is going to get a big deal with somebody, possibly a poison pill deal, so for a guy who is not your franchise QB seems like a lot to sign up with.

Secondly, what is the feeling with Browns fans.  Would they be ok seeing Anderson head out of town if it brought in decent draft picks and running with Quinn next year?

Thanks

by WCG on Nov 13, 2007 1:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I think right now, the organization is gushing over Derek Anderson. It's worth it to cut your losses with Quinn if by a miracle you establish a "great" starting quarterback.

It sounds absolutely ridiculous, but I don't think we'd let go of Anderson in exchange for a first- and third-rounder this year. That could be a big mistake in the long run, but also, I look at the Chargers' scenario. They let Drew Brees go, and right about now, their offense would be a lot better if they had stuck with what worked in my opinion.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 13, 2007 1:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
But can you carry 2 QBs that have heft contracts if you know one might not see the field for 4 years?

by WCG on Nov 13, 2007 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
We would probably rid of Quinn for a first-rounder in my scenario after a year or two.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 13, 2007 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
You really think they'd do that?  That is pretty much unheard of.

by WCG on Nov 13, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I'm not sure they can afford to let him go.  He's proven that he is now a good starting QB in the NFL.  Better than most of his peers currently.  How can the Browns afford to let him go for an unproven rookie?  There's no financial reason to let DA go.  The Browns are all ready currently well under the cap.  The cap will probably increase by another $5-10 million next year.  The Browns don't have a first round pick in the 2008 draft so there'll be even more money to spend.  Injuries are a great leveller in the NFL.  There's just no reason not to keep DA around and keep BQ waiting in the wings, just in case.  I just don't see any reason not to sign DA.  

by 0001010 on Nov 14, 2007 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I like Derek Anderson.  He is making the plays and is playing as well as any QB has here in awhile.  He had some trouble but also had dropped passes on Sunday.  It was a team effort in the second half.  

we need to keep DA.  He is making all the plays.  I read somewhere this week that Brady Quinn has mostly playing time clauses in his contract.  Without him hitting these clauses (Which he wouldn't sitting on the bench behind DA) his contract is extremelly affordable for a back-up.  

I say we tender DA to the highest tender possible (I believe it is a first and a third) and offer him a long-term, cap friendly contract.  

If he proves next year that this more of a fluke than a trend then we still should be able to get something in return for him.  Hell, Atlanta recieved two second round picks and a swap of first rounders for Matt Schaub who only started ONE game.  

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 13, 2007 1:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I'd encourage everyone to check out what Behind The Steel Curtain's Michael Bean just posted in regards to what he "saw" from Derek Anderson:

Bean's Analysis on Anderson

I think he gave Anderson a good assessment, but focused too much on one game. Anderson has put tons of balls for about five weeks exactly in spots where ONLY his receivers can get the ball; heck, even look at the TD pass to Braylon Edwards against the Steelers. In regards to missing the short passes in the second half, that was a first for Anderson this season in struggling for multiple series when it's crunch time. If it happens more often than in one game, I'll get concerned.

Also, let's not forget that Anderson got his act together on the final drive of the game, almost leading the Browns to field goal range had we had another timeout.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 13, 2007 2:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Why do you feel the need to put quotation around what i "saw". I wtached the game just like you, and if you read my post about Anderson prior to the game, you'll see that I have given him plenty of credit for what he's done.

When you don't get sacked once in a game and don't complete 50 % of your passes, you have accuracy issues. At least for that day. Pretty simple.

If you actually "read" my post, you'd notice that I said Anderson's clearly shown he's capable of making those throws, as evidenced by his play during that great first drive he engineered (and you're right that throw to Edwards was beautiful, and I intented to mention that as well).

Not sure what I wrote that would make you feel the need to say my eyes were misleading me.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 13, 2007 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Not trying to be combative by the way. I've also written about the Browns favorable schedule and the likelihood of them being this year's NYJ and sneaking in to the playoffs. A win against the Ravens next week, and against BUffalo would probably be enough to get you in with 10 wins.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 13, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Firstly, you misinterpreted my intended use of the quoted word "saw". I was trying to distinguish for the casual reader who might me skimming that this was NOT my viewpoint in the link. Looking back, if I quoted the word "he" instead, perhaps it would've been a little better?

The only thing closely negative I stated about your post was that I felt you focused too much on one game (Where does that turn into your eyes were misleading you?). Considering the title of the post was about Derek Anderson, maybe I misinterpreted this part, in the sense that you were just making a general statement:

"Accuracy and an innate ability to instinctually know what kind of trajectory and pace you need on each throw in about 3 seconds time will keep you in this league a lot longer than arm strength. Arm strength and nothing else will just get you an initial look at Scout Day in college, but it's not going to keep you in the league."

Yes, it's a general statement, but I took it as jumping to the conclusion that because Anderson didn't show accuracy in this one game, people should suddenly start to worry. I think the above quote would've been more suitable to even suggest after several bad games from Anderson, contrary to just one bad half.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 13, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Yea that one part about natural ability wasnt referring to Anderson specifically, just QBs in general.

Ah, the one problem with conversation over the internet - hard to always get the context of what others are saying.

by Blitzburgh on Nov 13, 2007 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
"Anderson got his act together on the final drive of the game..."

Not sure that's the best drive to evaluate, since the Stillers were giving up the middle of the field, knowing we had no TOs remaining.

by JulioBernazard on Nov 13, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
He played tight on Sunday (and it looked like the game plan from C.H.U.D. was "Dont' get sacked, no matter what else you do"), but I still like the guy. A lot.

I hope we can sign him, and give Quinn more time to learn.

Slightly OT: who the heck's gonna be our RB next year? Jamal looked old and slow and weak.

by JulioBernazard on Nov 13, 2007 2:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Running back is the easiest position and cheapest position to fill in the NFL.  Not a worry IMO...

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 13, 2007 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I say we go into next year with both Anderson and Quinn as we will not have to deal with trying to get 3 guys PT.

Baring a collapse of epic proportions, Anderson goes into next year as the #1 QB with Quinn as the backup. With the starting QB battle settled, you can give Quinn plenty of playing time and let him show us (and the other 31 teams) what he's got.

It would also be nice for the playoff picture to be settled prior to week 17 allowing us to give Quinn a start (not likely) or perhaps a blowout or two allows us to get him some game time (Jets game, S.F game) but with our "D" who knows.

Remember, this is actually a good problem to have!

by mgtbfb on Nov 13, 2007 4:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Indeed; a great problem to have compared to the Couch/Holcomb, Dilfer/Frye, and even Frye/Anderson situations we've had.

I wouldn't be in favor of starting Quinn in a Week 17 game if the playoffs were decided by then (unlikely, as you stated). Chances are that if we clinched in Week 16, it'll be for the wildcard spot, meaning we wouldn't have much of a break for the playoff week. I'd much rather make sure the offense stayed in sync under Anderson for at least a half so that no momentum would be lost for the following week.

However, I'd definitely like to get a quick look at Quinn if we were to blow out the Jets, 49ers, etc.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 13, 2007 7:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Yes, this is an absolutely great problem to have, choosing between two good quarterbacks. With all due respect to Couch v. Holcomb, the Browns have not had to deal with this problem for a mighty long time... -at least- since the era of "The MotherScratcher"  ;-)

On the issue of how to plan for a week 17 game if a wildcard spot is clinched going in to the last game -- just clinching a wildcard spot does not guarantee seeding for the first game.  Without knowing who wins their divisions for #3 and #4 seeds, on the surface it would seem like earning a #5 seed as the best wildcard team would be a little more advantageous than getting the #6 seed.  Unless the overall playoff seed was locked in going into the week 17 game, your starters should play all out just like any other week.

If any game from here on out were to become a blowout -- if we were to blow out the Jets or 49ers, or God forbid, we were to get blowed out (thanks, Emmit!) in a game, it would be good to get a look at Quinn in regular season action.

In the preseason, Quinn appeared to really take charge regardless of the unit he played with, or the level of the competition he was facing.  He seemed to show a lot of natural leadership qualities, from the way he took charge of organizing the team on field, to the way he drew out the best in his teammates during drives.  I'd like to see how much of that translates to a regular season game.

Derek Anderson has a lot to offer in that he reads the play quickly, acts decisively, has great arm strength, and gets rid of the ball quickly.  Along with that, he is surprisingly light on his feet for a man of his size.  All of these are impressive, NFL quality attributes.  Other players have made more out of less than Derek Anderson has going for him.

On the other hand, though Anderson has been improving with steady playing time he often makes poor decisions on targets. To some extent the decisions are a by-product of being trained to take the decisive action while making the quick read on routes.  He rarely seems to think twice about throwing into double or even heavy zone coverage, but here again he shows some improvement in throwing the ball away when the play is simply just not there.  Anderson also has the same touch on short loft passes as does Roberto Duran - "Hands of Stone"... The positives are solid, but the obstacles for him to overcome are just as formidable.

For what it's worth, you asked for our opinions on Anderson -- good, bad or indifferent.  I've got to say I'm indifferent on this, not in the sense that I couldn't care less one way or the other about him as a player having strong positives and negatives to work with, and work through, but indifferernt on going forward with Anderson.  I would be very comfortable with making the highest tender offer to him and just as comfortable either way that action plays out.  As much as I would want to see Quinn in regular season action before I was forced to make the move to get rid of either one, I think either Quinn or Anderson could be very successful in this offense.

The way I see it, the Browns have two QBs who can start on at least half the teams in the NFL today.  That's a great problem to have.  If the Browns can fill two areas of need at the cost of either of those QBs, they have got to go for it.  That's an organizational decision to make.  

If a first and a third round draft pick next year can fill two needs, I wish Anderson the best of luck wherever he goes (OK, not so much luck if he goes to another team in the division...).  At the same time, if he stays here on the tender contract, I would have no problems keeping Anderson as the starter facing competition in training camp from Quinn.  If the Browns can fill two needs by trading Quinn while keeping Anderson, I would welcone that move also.

Pretty much the definition of indifferent....

Verse: The fire man screams, and the engine just gleams... Chorus: "There's a gleam, men, there's a gleam... Let's catch the gleam!"

by Casey Jones on Nov 14, 2007 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I'm in almost full agreement with this.  I like DA.  He has been much better than any of us could have expected and it is obvious he is still improving.  That said, I wouldn't complain one bit if tomorrow the team says Quinn is starting the remainder of the year (I'm not advocating this!)

I have recently come to the conclusion that a great QB really elevates an entire team.  I won't pretend to know why this is other than the possibility that the team is more confident, but there does appear to be plenty of evidence of QB play elevating or reducing a team's ability to win.  Here are a few more notable ones in my opinon.

Pats - Bledsoe to Brady - Pats go from .500 to super bowl champs.
Steelers - Maddox to Rothlesburger
Cowboys - Bledsoe to Romo
Saints - Although he has struggled this year, Brees leads them to the NFC title game
Bears - Where would they have been with a decent QB last year.
Notre Dame - Pretty good with Quinn...terrible without him.

I wasn't big on Quinn prior to the draft, but after watching him in preseason and Notre Dame fall apart, it is obvious that he gets the position.

So, tender the max to DA and if someone takes him, let him go for a 1 and 3, if nobody bites, no worries at all, he is the starter next year.

Incidently, is there such a thing as a sign and trade in football?  For example, the bears extend and offer and then we match it, but trade him to the bears for Tommy Harris instead of the 1 and 3?

by dvd1204 on Nov 14, 2007 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
That would be tempting. I think we might be able to get more than just Harris as they need a real QB more then we need Harris.

We can draft a tackle and plug him in much easier than they can find a solid QB, IMO.

Harris would be nice though, provided he fits the scheme.

by mgtbfb on Nov 15, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
apologies in advance for the mother of all downloads on the reply. I didn't realize how large, cumbersone, and awkward it wouuld look until it got out on the page...
Verse: The fire man screams, and the engine just gleams... Chorus: "There's a gleam, men, there's a gleam... Let's catch the gleam!"

by Casey Jones on Nov 14, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Heh...fine by me. I'll extend my thoughts on this a bit:

"At the same time, if he stays here on the tender contract, I would have no problems keeping Anderson as the starter facing competition in training camp from Quinn."

If we offer Anderson a tender, Quinn will definitely provide him competition, but I think we'd be committed to Anderson for the entire year. Otherwise, it would have definitely been a waste to not take a first- and third-rounder.

Here's something I really haven't thought of: what if teams don't want to give up a first- and third-round pick for him if we didn't bring him back? In many of my discussions, I've been acting under the presumption that he'll get an offer, when that may not actually occur at all.

by ChrisPokorny on Nov 14, 2007 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I don't see a way that some team, Chicago, Minnesota, etc. doesn't offer him a deal.  My only worry is that they will add in a "poison pill".  The Vikings and Seahawks got into this stipulating that if a player plays a certain amount of games in a state (In our case it would be Ohio) for more than four games a year, the entire contract would become guaranteed.  This obviously would kill the Browns cap, making it very easy to let Anderson go...

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 14, 2007 6:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I'm of course referring to getting Quinn plenty of the '08 pre-season snaps.

by mgtbfb on Nov 13, 2007 4:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
I did not like the playcalling at all in the second half. We need to be aggressive in this offense at all times, except maybe the latter half of the fourth quarter. The team has thrived on taking shots downfield all season, so running Jamal Lewis as much as we did was asking for trouble with his subpar ypc numbers on the season.

By continuing to throw, we are showing confidence in Anderson and I presume he will feel more comfortable making some of the throws he missed. There is too much pressure on a passing play when you only have one shot out of three downs.

I also remember the Steelers/Browns playoff game from a few years ago where Butch got ultra-conservative with the offense and defense. You all know how that game turned out, but it felt a little similar to this game, with the DB's covering deep downfield allowing the Roethlisberger scrambles and the underneath routes.

That said, we would be foolish to give up on Anderson because of a bad half against what looks to me like the first or second best defense in the NFL this year. I fear a situation like the Chargers are currently experiencing where they are playing with an obviously inferior quarterback in Phillip Rivers. Rivers succeeded in Martyball, but has been exposed this year with Ladainian coming back to Earth a little bit. Rivers, like Quinn, was an unknown commodity. You have to stick with what works.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 13, 2007 9:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
It was one bad half. Anderson has had a nice start to his season and I think ot discount it because he struggled mightily against a good defense would be unfair. It is also a bit naive to being to proclaim him as the answer to the quarterbacking problem. He has played 8 pretty good games and he looks to be capable of continuing that for awhile.
At least I wasn't born in Denver

by fwembt on Nov 14, 2007 12:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
It seems to me that football is a lot more week to week and year to year than baseball (to continue my odd habit of comparing analysis of the Browns to the Indians.)

With the Indians, you plug in Grady Sizemore and the FO has said confidently since 05, this is our starting CF and he will be for the next four years or something...

With football, the volatility in talent, scheme and overall health makes every game its own little season.  Therefore, thinking about long-term roster construction in the NFL seems to primarily hinge on having two serviceable players for every starting roster spot.  Therefore, the best you can say about Derek Anderson is that he is getting better, not worse, and for the forseeable future that trend should continue.  However, that alone is not enough of a reason to think we need to move Quinn in the near term for another draft pick which might not net as much value as what we have in Quinn (remember what we saw in the preseason.)  

In summary, all I am trying to communicate is that on 11-14 we have good QB depth.  By 11-25 (God forbid) we could be back to our 8-year running curse of having lousy QB depth due only to the volatility of the NFL.  

There is no reason to upset an apple cart that only recently began to hold more than one or two apples.

by NickFantana on Nov 14, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
Hey guys,

I am doing a paper on why the Browns should start Brady Quinn over Derek Anderson.  I would appreciate any comments.  You post here or to my e-mail to mds438@nyu.edu.

Thanks

by NYUPaper on Nov 15, 2007 9:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
The stats don't lie about Anderson.

Since taking over the team in week 2, he ranks fourth in the NFL with 20 touchdown passes and sixth in the AFC with a passer rating of 90.7 as he prepares to lead the Browns into their Week 11 AFC North showdown against the Ravens at Baltimore.

They are one blocked kick away from being 6-3 and one bad second half against Pittsburgh away from being 7-2.

Considering the sorry state of the QB position in the NFL, it's absolutely insane to even consider playing Quinn ahead of him this season. The only reason Quinn should even see the field is if Anderson gets hurt or the Brows are up by more than 20 in the 4th quarter.

As for the future, It looks like that Quinn trade is going to pay big dividends. The Browns traded their 2008 first rounder and their 2nd rounder to move up to the 18th position. It appears at this point in the season that their 2008 pick will be very close to the 18th pick next year, 15-20 more than likely.

More than likely Anderson, as a restricted free agent, will receive a high offer from someone in the league. The list of teams desperate for a good starter include:

Chicago, Miami, NYJ, Baltimore, Seattle, Jacksonville, Minnesota. Those are the teams that would first come to mind as major Anderson suitors.

I see 2 scenarios.

#1: The Browns sign and trade Anderson to the highest bidder. There is recent precedent to expect them to pick up at least two picks out of the deal, one of them being a first rounder. If Anderson finishes the year with 35 TDs, which is more than possible, they will easilly get this. And the pick will be high in the first round, at least top 10. Of course, they'll either take a Defensive Lineman or a Linebacker with this pick and Quinn will take over the team.

#2: They sign Anderson and they trade Quinn for value, again, at least a mid first rounder. There is more need in the league teamwide for a QB than there was in last years draft and this years draft is once again weak at the QB position. The other thing to remember is that because Quinn was taken at 18, he didnt get the huge contract that most first round QBs get, so that adds value in a trade.

Either way, they walk away better off making that deal for Quinn last year. The third scenario, unlikely, is that they sign Anderson and keep Quinn.

by gentryholdem on Nov 17, 2007 10:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Open Discussion: Derek Anderson
One other thing, just to be clear. If the Browns sign Anderson to a one year tender offer of 2.2 million, he becomes a restricted free agent for one week. Under the NFL rules, if a team offers him more money than the Browns are willing to match, they are guaranteed a first rounder for losing him from the team who signed him. So the Browns can choose not to match, or they can match and trade.

by gentryholdem on Nov 17, 2007 10:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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